posted
There is an interesting discussion going on in the forums used for the NWN server that I play on. Apparently, there are alot of fuckwits on this board that believe holding hands in a circle with everyone in the middle east and singing fucking "coombiya (sp?) my lord" was the best way to respond to the terrorist acts of 911. Anyways, its pretty long, but makes for some interesting reading. I made a few posts, but im sick of these dipshits feeling sympathetic with terrorists so ive just given up. Here is the link (you may have to register to read it, im not sure)
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Interesting debate on there. Are the others on there children? Seems like they don't know much about politics. I do have a couple questions for you Ender -
quote:Anyways, why I didnt vote for bush in the first place, and why i wouldnt vote for him again, was because of how bad he completely screwed up our economy. To say the least, its fucked and will remain fucked for a very long time.
Who is a better choice then Bush. And how did he screw up the economy?
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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Luke you need to understand that bush had nothing to do with screwing up the economy. It was a product of 8years of the clinton administrations recklessness in many areas of economic policy. Bush is just left to pick up the pieces of the clinton era dot.com overinflation. Do you realy belive that the economy responds that quickly that it would be a product of the current administration. NO. The current economic situation is a direct product of the clinton era. What has been amazing is the relativly quick stimulus effects the bush administration has been able to initate.
It is nonsensical liberal thinking to find some fault in the current president for the economy. Name one move bush made that caused the economy to be where it is.
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Don't forget that 9/11 multiplied the effect after Bush was in office for the first 9 months of his term.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Well, maybe im wrong then. But, all I know is that we have the worst economic situation in this country than we have head since probibly the great depression. Also, a recession like this happened when Bush Sr. took office and GW has much of the same guidelines and ideas about the economy. I understand that Bush is not to blame for all of this, but it sure seems like a strange coincidence.
No Scott, the rest of these people arent just kids. There is an age limit required to be admited into Avlis (the server is PW protected and you need to fill out an application to get the PW). So, everyone in this debate is at least over 18 and most of them are in their mid 20's or even older.
Anyways, keep reading the shit. Im guessing you stopped right at my post on the 1st page after reading that I blamed Bush for the economy. The really good stuff is towards the end on the last 3 pages. Especially pay attention to the stuff posted by the users "Actually" and "Brannor". Some of their views are really fucked up.
[ 08-06-2003, 12:34: Message edited by: Ender ]
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
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I read through the end of page two - then my eyes started to hurt (can't they fix the colors on there?) If I get time I will go back and read some more. I like your arguements on the war keep replying
There are many schools of thought on the economy and I won't mention them all. Bush came into alot of bad luck at the beginning of his presidency - the economy was starting to go downhill and then Sept. 11th happened. I mean lets face it Sept. 11th is the reason the economy is like it is today - it effected every industry and we are just now starting to recover. You can't blame Sept. 11th on Bush - hell I wouldn't even blame it on Clinton. As far was Bush's policies since 9/11 - I would agree with republican logic that tax cuts help stimulate the economy. More cash in your pocket means you spend more and put more cash in someone elses pocket and it has a multiplying effect. Eventully, this results in a higher GDP and more tax revenue. Democrats want the government to spend tax revenues on social programs instead of lowering taxes - this may give more people jobs working for the government but it won't have the same multiplying effect as jobs created in the free market....... blah blah blah I could go on all day. Luke just don't buy into all the spin about how the economy is Bush's fault that is going to start to ramp up over the next few months.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
The other effect of the tax cuts is when people know they are takeing home more percentage of their dollar then they tend to work harder.
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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The Republican mantra of tax cuts for the rich will stimulate the economy by putting more money in their pockets is a load of BS. This would work if you gave substantial tax cuts to the middle and lower income folks, only.
The RICH already are spending money, a tax cut for them is not going to cause them to spend more money, (it puts more money in their savings accont though). A substantial tax cut (more than the measly $500 dollars that most are getting) for the middle and lower income people would defiantely spur the economy, because these people will spend the extra money. The majority of these people are living paycheck to paycheck, so any extra money in their pockets would allow them to purchase that boat or jetski or fancy dinner, etc.
Now if Bush's so called stimulus package would actually put any substantial amount of money into the hands of the people that need it, he would be helping this economy recover, instead of allowing it to stagnate along.
Just so you know that I'm not a bleeding-heart liberal, I don't subscribe to the notion that we should raise taxes or give a ton of money for social programs. I just believe that Bush is helping out his rich friends and not worrying about the common man.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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The reason to give tax cuts to the rich as well as the poor/middle class (which is what he did not soley to the rich) is because they ARE the economy. (I am taking home almost 100$ extra per month) And I dont even have kids. Not to mention the extra child tax credit (which i dont agree with.
But basically this tax cut provides more of an overall capita injection into the free market than it would be if it were the poor and middle class only. Further look at who most people call rich. My parrents technicly qualify as "the rich" but they also live mostly by spending what they make. Further the super rich are able to provide more jobs because they are the typical buisness owners/manager. When more money is avaliable to them they feel more confident in expanding their buisnesses. (small to med size buisnesses) Thus more jobs and more corporate spending. Corporate spending is ultimatly what will turn the economy around not consumer spending. Thus giving tax cuts to the rich (as well as everyone else) allows coporate spending (in materals and labor force) to increase.
How do you think the rich got rich, by throwing their money in a safe 0.9% savings account??? Absolutly not!!! People get rich by investing in their companie(s) and other companies as well as bonds, stocks, and futures. Thus the money to the rich will stimulate the economy by simple virtue that it gives more investment confidence to thoes that acutally have the money to invest in companies and thus economic growth!!! It simply puts more money in all faccets of the economy and not just the local target store for an extra pair of jeans.
posted
See the thing about liberals is they formulate all their thinking and dogma in simple terms the common man can attach on to more easily, even if overall their thoughts and ideas never make sense.
The middle and right side of the coin much more often than not take into account the bigger picture.
For instance: In a reccent speach clinton said, "Bla bla people dont have jobs and bush wants to give ME a tax cut"....
When a more logical statement would be "bla bla people dont have jobs, but the new tax cuts will allow companies to hire more people due to new investments from the rich...."
It's all about looking at the whole system not just one simple part of the equation that regualr dumbies can understand. I read somewhere if everyone was 4-6 years more educated than they are now there would be no liberals.....
posted
Come on Brad you listen to enough talk radio to understand the definition of "rich" is highly distorted. And these low income people you speak of don't pay taxes in the first place - so how do you give them more money to spend??....I hope you are not advicating more negative income taxes like the earned income credit. Those "refunds" are nothing more then income re-distribution.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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Most people think consumer spending and confidence is a higher percentage of the overall economy than it really is.
Corporate spending makes up a much larger piece of the pie.
But if the republicans came out and acutally stated the real reasons for the tax cuts to the rich and people started to realize that the economy IS the rich and upper-middle class. It would be taken by most of the un-or-under educated as that they dont matter. Thus pushing them further away from the right.
It all pisses me off because ignorance is what produces liberalism and to a more extreme socialism....
I'm not directing this at anyone. It is a general statement.
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