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Author Topic: What is real? What is the truth?
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Posting God
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Since everyone thinks I’m a crackpot conspiracy theorist anyway, here is a link to an article that points out some interesting historical events:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/index.html

I’ve had the sense that everything that has happened in NY and DC were Problem-Reaction-Solution scenarios being played out right in front of us, and the cameras, since 8:42 on 9/11/01...

Bring on the shit-blizzard!


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Trany
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That was odd, good reading. I think a bit of it is factual. The author seems to have a pot smoking paranoia that is second to Timmothy Leary and Charles Manson. Bomb 'em anyways, we'll get out of this "tech" reccession.
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Cramer
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i dont know where you come up with this shit man....

put down the bong, remove the needle, or I.V.
ports, dry up for a few days, and then call
hazelden.

for christ's sake, how could you possibly think that anything like this crap you present could be true? you know that the people we vote in would never do anything like this, they are concerned, caring people.


and you give me shit about the " alice in wonderland " piece.....

wow....


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ProfBooty
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I've got to admit, some of this kinda stuff crossed my mind as the attacks were unfolding on TV. Then the huge surge of patriotism and the discussions from gov't officials about "changes" to American life and loss of our open society. It all seemed very Orwellian to me. Granted, I don't believe that what happened on Sept. 11 was staged by our gov't but there could be a glimmer of truth to some of the things brought up in that article.

In Orwell's 1984, the supernation Oceania (North American and Western Europe) that the story was centered in was at constant war with one or more other superstates. The continual war gave the gov't three very important things: 1) unlimited power to do whatever necessary for the "good of the nation", 2) large amounts of patriotism and public support from the war "victories" and 3) an instrument (war) that constantly depleted all resources and wealth within society to prevent citizens from gaining any useful power. Media propaganda and acts of subterfuge played vital roles in manipulating the general public and reinforcing the reassuring image of Big Brother. A drawn-out, "multi-faceted" war fought on many fronts as is being predicted today could serve such a purpose. There are a lot of other eerie similarities between 1984 and modern society - Newspeak aka, "politcally correct" terms is one example.

Anyway, whether or not any or this is true is kinda here nor there but it does get you wondering. It gives you another way to look at things even if they're waaaaay out there. That's what's cool about 1984, it makes huge exaggerations to illustrate much more subtle ideas that aren't so far-fetched. Skeptics are important in that they help keep everyone on their toes and questioning things. I once heard that there are even people out there who don't believe that the US ever actually landed on the moon. It's not at all a bad thing to question and demand proof sometimes. An interesting read if nothing else.


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Jomamason
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Kudos Profbooty. I've also thought a lot about the similarities between 1984 and the way our government is progressing over time . And it doesn't seem that its necessarily has to be a "conspiracy" or some plan by the illuminade, cause the govt and those within is far from being that orginized. Another book in the same realm as 1984 which has way too many similarities to our current govt is A. Huxleys "Brave New World". Its about a feel-good liberal society, where everyone follows one philosopher/president, books and history are banned or "revised", natural procreation is banned and babies are engineered and everyone parties and fucks "who-ever" while a using a feelgood drug called Soma (aka Prozac????). Overall definitly in the same realm as 1984, and I see alot of things progressing in our govt. towards something similar to these to stories, albeit mabey not as extreme (and both ends of the spectrum are responsible for this, liberals and conservatives alike, although libbies tend to infringe more on thought and personal freedoms, but conservatives have there own agendas too).

Just compare the thought police in 1984 and the so-called "Hate Crimes". What does it matter what someone who is deranged/crazy/fucked up enough to kill someone who is thinking. Its fucking crazy, its policing someone's intent, not even their words but their fucking thoughts.

Just my 2cents.


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ProfBooty
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Yeah, I remember reading Brave New World in high school. I liked 1984 better (read it twice) but comparing the two, there are probably even more similarities between today's society and that depicted in Brave New World.

I definitely agree on the hate crimes point. They strike me as ways of damning certain beliefs/ideas. They also seem to be basically anti-white male laws. Can't says I've heard of an instance where a bunch of black gangstas were tried for "hate crimes" after killing some white guy. But I digress....

[This message has been edited by ProfBooty (edited 09-24-2001).]


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Cramer
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" GLOBAL WARMING " FARCE OR FACT???

" GLOBAL COOLING " FACT OR FARCE???

i think its all a bunch of shit!!


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Jomamason
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Try Global Climate Change. Always has been, always will be a FACT.

Minnesota: Used to be under 1.5 miles of ice!!!!!

Utah and the Great Basin (now primarily High mnt desert and low desert): Used to be a Tropical Forest, with the worlds largest inland sea EVER, with Dinosaurs running around.

Heres a thought: The global climate is not STATIC and it certainly isn't limited to regional influences.

The industrial revolution and the byproducts associated with it certainly arn't the cause of this but they ARE certainly capable of CONFOUNDING the situation (good or bad).

I've used small words and tried to be concise here so as Steve doesn't bastardize my opinion on the subject once again...........(j/k bud)


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Posting God
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NATO to deploy AWACS in U.S.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/639301.asp?0dm=C18ON

more strides towards NWO...


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cajun
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Hey all,

Since we're sort of examining the stuff going on "behind the scenes" of our fair government, I figured this link might be of interest.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6904/Chom1.html

Real interesting speech by Noam Chomsky regarding the media and it's manipulation of society, tracing it's roots back to the 1800's and World War 1.

This guy is/was an MIT professor, and is highly regarded...

If you back out of that speech to the "host site" it's something called "Crucial Arts" and has a lot of other alterna-think stuff. I didn't look at much, but bookmarked the site for later.

Hope the link worked...
-Will

[This message has been edited by cajun (edited 10-09-2001).]


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Cramer
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RENSE.COM

GO THERE, OPEN YOUR MIND.

and then follow some of the other links..

" DONT BELIVE ANYTHING YOU HEAR OR READ, AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE. "
that would be a good start.

the other side has got some very good stories!!!!

[This message has been edited by cramer (edited 10-12-2001).]


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Let’s play a little game. Let’s post some personal predictions here; hopefully none of the bad ones come true...

In the not-so-near future:

The anthrax scare slows and subsides. We are bombarded by FBI warnings from “credible” intelligence of more attacks. Everyone becomes complacent.

The general public doesn’t know that “terrorists” have obtained a small amount of Small Pox.

1-2 months later these terrorists unleash small pox on a small community. Hundred to thousands die.

The outbreak is contained and possible carriers are quarantined. It happens on a scale large enough for everyone to notice - easily - thanks to the controlled media. We are bombarded by the horrific visualization of people infected with Small Pox. Everyone wants to get vaccinated.

The terrorists make demands to stop our attacks or more Small Pox will be released – in any city at any time. They are everywhere!

As things get worse with more outbreaks we give the government more and more power to “protect” us. In fact the government is allowing a certain number of releases to occur on a time scale to overwhelm people with fear, emotion and terror. The real terrorist is in fact the government the people trusted.

Because there aren’t enough police to “protect” us, more National Guard and military personnel are used to “protect” Americans within their own borders. As multiple battle lines are drawn across the world, less and less American military personnel are stateside to “protect” America. NATO (read NWO) forces fill in. Two “goose-steps” forward.


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Jomama
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The possibilities are mind boggling......... Anything is possible........ .. The only thing that I would find hard to swallow is Troops (Regular Military or National Guard) ever turning against US citizens in any kind of large scale country wide action... I've just met a lot of military and don't think those are the kind of orders they would be willing to follow .......... These people have families here too,,, and they're far from being brainwashed...


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BoondockSaint
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Martial Law.

Anybody see that flick "The Siege"?

-Boondock


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Jomama
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Yup, really liked it, very scary possibilities.....Dont know about the legality (and the likelyhood) of flipfloping to allow our military to be used against their citizens?????? Lets hope not at least.
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BoondockSaint
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Back when the whole 9-11 thing first happened one of my squad leaders brought up an interesting point: why did'nt we get accountability? It is a simple thing, really, but very difficult to do on such a huge scale. What I mean is, say my platoon (30 troops) is out on patrol and we get hit. After the action is done, the first thing I do, as a team leader, is find my troops/equipment and pass it up the chain of command. An ACE report, Ammunition, Casualties and Equipment is how it's done. That's passed further up until it's at the platoon level. That way we know who's still alive, and who's not, who's missing, what's missing, and on a side note, do we have anyone we aren't supposed to have.

His point was, why weren't borders shut down, visas cut off, and yes, just like in "The Siege", those of "questionable" decent/behaviors focused on/segregated. I found it rather interesting, but altogether almost impossible, due to size, manpower, etc, without bringing in the troops...

So what is real? Terrorists are running free and rampantly homosexual on our native soil. What is the truth? The solution for them fits in the palm of my hand, but when introduced to a healthy medium, can break the sound barrier and fuck their world up. Just random thoughts from a REALLY bored help desk technican...err, "Desktop Services Technician" as I am called here.

-Boondock


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Cramer
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it was an inside job people, plain and simple.
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Cramer
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there are far deeper reasons for the things that are going on in this country, and around the world.....


and about u s soldiers being used against us.....they may not have to be...
dont EVER forget about the blue helmet crew....

on a moments notice, if they are not already,
they could be in areas that were deemed a threat, and have them neutralized, before any of it hit the media,who probably would not cover it, because it was not something that the public " needed " to know about.

we are to belive that the gov. couldnt keep a few rag-heads under control, but now that the constitution has been " changed " , we are to feel more " safe " because they have the powers to " perform " there job more efficently??? what ever. this shit just drives me crazy...and the people that buy this shit...... WOW!

[This message has been edited by cramer (edited 10-29-2001).]


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Cramer
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"If the New World Order agenda is not realized by the terrorist attacks on America and if American's don't agree to give up their weapons and relinquish their sovereignty to the New World Order, the next attack will be the use of chemical, biological and/or atomic warfare against the American people. The architects of the New World Order will not hesitate to use as a last resort an atomic or hydrogen bomb in a major American city."

--Reference Op Ed page of the New York Times 9/24/01


so,
anyone want to guess which city is the first to get it????


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Jomama
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too fucking much man, too fuckin much......

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Cramer
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what do you all think of this?????

ARE AMERICANS THE VICTIMS OF A HOAX? http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/


The time has come to stop using the flag as a blindfold, to stop waving our guns and our gods at each other, to take a close look at the facts which have emerged from the attacks on the World Trade Towers and to recognize the very real possibility, indeed probability, that We The People are the victims of a gigantic and deadly hoax.

In a normal terrorist event, the terrorists cannot wait to take credit, in order to link the violence to the socio-political intent of the terrorist organization. Yet the prime suspect in the New York Towers case, ex(?) CIA asset Osama Bin Laden (whose brother is one of George W. Bush's Texas business partners), has issued only two statements regarding the September 11th attacks, and both of those are denials of any involvement.

Huge problems are emerging in the official view of events. It's known that the United States was planning an invasion of Afghanistan long before the attacks on the World Trade Towers. Indeed the attacks on the World Trade Towers perfectly fit the timetable of an invasion by October stated by US officials just last summer.

The 19 names of suspected hijackers released by the FBI don't point to Afghanistan. They come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates; all across the middle east without a focus in any one region. Indeed, even as the FBI was admitting that its list of 19 names was based solely on identifications thought to have been forged, Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal insisted that an investigation in Saudi Arabia showed that the 5 Saudi men were not aboard the four jetliners that crashed in New York, Virginia and Pennsylvania on September 11. "It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened," Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press in Washington after meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House. A sixth identified hijacker is also reported to still be alive in Tunisia, while a 7th named man died two years ago!

In a recent development, the BBC is reporting that the transcript of a phone call made by Stewerdess Madeline Amy Sweeney to Boston air traffic controls shows that the stewerdess gave the seat numbers occupied byu the hijackers, seat numbers which were NOT the seats of the men the FBI claimed were responsible for the hijacking!

FBI Chief Robert Mueller admitted on September 20 and on September 27 that at this time the FBI has no legal proof to prove the true identities of the suicidal hijackers. Yet in the haste to move forward on the already planned war in Afghanistan, our government and the FBI (which does not have the best record for honesty in investigations to begin with, having been caught rigging lab tests, manufacturing testimony in the Vincent Foster affair, and illegally withholding/destroying evidence in the Oklahoma Bombing case) are not taking too close a look at evidence that points away from the designated suspect, ex(?) CIA asset Osama Bin Laden.

In particular, the FBI, too busy harassing political dissenters to find spies in its midst, the long rumored mole inside the White House, or plug leaks in high-tech flowing to foreign nations, has willfully and criminally ignored the implications of some vital pieces of information the FBI is itself waving around at the public.

We are being told that this crack team of terrorists, able to breeze past airport security as if it wasn't there, wound up leaving so much evidence in its wake that the bumbling Inspector Clouseau (or the FBI) could not fail to stumble over it. The locations where the terrorists supposedly stayed are so overloaded with damning materials that they resemble less a crimes scene, and more a "B" detective movie set, with vital clues always on prominent display for the cameras.

Yet another problem lies with the described actions of the hijackers themselves. We are being told on the one hand that these men were such fanatical devotees of their faith that they willingly crashed the jets they were flying into buildings. Yet on the other hand, we are being told that these same men spent the night before their planned visit to Allah drinking in strip bars, committing not just one, but two mortal sins which would keep them out of Paradise no matter what else they did. Truly devout Muslims would spend the day before a suicide attack fasting and praying. Not only does the drinking in strip bars not fit the profile of a fanatically religeous Muslim willing to die for his cause, but the witness reports of the men in the bars are of men going out of their way to be noticed and remembered, while waving around phony identifications.

Because of the facts of the phony identifications, we don't really know who was on those planes. What we do know is that the men on those planes went to a great deal of trouble to steal the identities of Muslims, and to make sure those identities were seen and remembered, then to leave a plethora of planted clues around, such as crop dusting manuals, and letters in checked baggage (why does a terrorist about to die need to check baggage?) that "somehow" didn't get on the final, fatal, flight.

Fake terror is nothing new. According to recently released files, our government planned Operation NORTHWOODS to stage phony terror attacks against American citizens in the wake of the Bay Of Pigs, to anger Americans into support for a second invasion of Cuba. The plan was spiked by JFK. If our government has ever actually carried out such plans to stage phony terror attacks, the documents have remained classified. But given the reality of Operation NORTHWOODS, or the manner in which FDR manuevered Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor, one cannot rule out the possibility that, once again, the people of the United States are being lied to by their own government, to manufacture consent for a war of invasion already being discussed with other nations the previous summer.

It is also quite possible, indeed likely, that the United States is being spoofed by a third party to trigger a war. It has happened before. According to Victor Ostrovsky, a defector from Israel's secret service, Mossad, Israel decided to mount a false-flag operation designed to further discredit Libya, and provoke the US to attack an Arab nation. A transmitter loaded with pre-recorded messages was planted in Tripoli, Libya, by a Mossad team.

The `Trojan Horse' beamed out fake messages about Libyan-authorized bombings and planned attacks that were immediately intercepted by US electronic monitoring. Convinced by this disinformation that Libya was behind the 1986 bombing of a Berlin disco in which a US soldier died, President Ronald Reagan ordered massive air attacks on Libya, including an obvious- and illegal(under US law) attempt to assassinate Qadaffi himself. Some 100 Libyan civilians were killed, including Qadaffi's two year old daughter. Libyan officials had no idea why they were attacked.

It is worth remembering the motto of the Mossad is, "By way of deception, thou shalt do war."

Whether they were involed in the attacks or not, it cannot be doubted that Israel has benefited from the attacks in New York. While world attention is focuzed on what the US will do in Afghanistan, Israel has escalated its attacks against Palestinians towns. Israel has repeatedly tried to claim that Palestinians were involved in the New York attacks, hoping to bury the Palestinian cause under the rubble of the World Trade Towers.

Because of the faked IDs and stolen identities, we don't really know who planned the World Trade Towers attacks. We only know who they wanted us to blame.

And we know that the United States has been tricked in the past into bombing someone who did not deserve the attack, and that those who were bombed then embarked on what from their point of view was justified retaliation that culminated over Lockerbie. And while bombs were falling and planes were crashing, Israel was laughing at us that we had been so easily fooled into bombing Israel's targets for them.

Are we being hoaxed again, by Israel, or by our own government, or by both? It's impossible to rule that out. Right now there are a lot of people who want war. Oil companies want Afghanistan's petroleum products. Our corporations want "friendlier" markets. The CIA wants all that opium. And all those war-mongers, with all their greed and agendas, will not hesitate in the least to pour your tax dollars and your children's blood all over Afghanistan, to get those "friendlier" markets, oil, and opium.

Because of the vested interests at work here, American citizens must, more than at any other time in recent history, rely on themselves to decide what is happening in our nation. Too many of those who purport to report the "truth" to us are eager to grab more tax money and more children to pour into a war of invasion, poised at a region which has swallowed up every army that has tried to conquer it since the time of Alexander The Great.

And consider this. Grab a map of Europe and Asia, and plot out all the places the United States now has troops. Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, through the middle east and now into Afghanistan. A rather obvious militarized line is being formed across the continents.

Why?


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Posting God
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Every single media outlet is controlled.
Press releases. News briefs. Press conferences. Media pools. Wire services.

Where does the information that you want to believe come from?

Cinemamagic = Visual Misdirection = Illusions. David Copperfield, Houdini:

Don’t believe anything you see on TV. Anything on TV can be faked. How do they put that yellow line at the first down mark on Sundays? All it takes is a six second delay to fake anything. Even tough Hollywood and the news media try to separate themselves by an entire country (CA to NY) they are nearly one and the same and use the same tricks.

Don’t believe anything you hear on the radio (see "six second delay" above.) Don’t believe anything you read in the papers (Six seconds, HA! They've got all night to spin anything!) Remember: the fiction section at the library is just as big as (if not bigger than) the reference section.

Your First Amendment right guarantees your freedom of speech. It doesn’t guarantee your freedom from mis-information.


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