I like the idea of having a H&K .45 USP SS
at my side with laser sighting.
But none of those beats a 7mm magnum at 100-200 yards in the hands of a sniper with a high powered scope. None but the best kevlar in the world would stop that round inside of 100 yards.

So first ya gotta get to me.

Run
 

Your right to (not) own guns is already a foregone conclusion but when that facist ass steals the election, be prepared to turn in your vocal cords too. Enjoy this forum while it's still allowed (and while its admin is still a free man). And while your right to "vote" may still be intact, your right to have the candidate with the most votes win the election is obviously already a thing of the past. Never mind that document that guys like Thomas Jefferson & George Washington helped write, the liberals don't like and apparently they know better than the afformentioned two gentlemen who built this country from the trenches of war up.

What I really want to know is why no one can find out how someone managed to make George W's 50,000 vote lead disappear in literally, a matter of hours? Several very credible sources have confirmed that something like that is virtually a statistical impossibility. I just hope someone uncovers the truth before it's too late and the anti-christ is firmly planted in the white house. Welcome to the People Republic of the United States of America.
 

http://www.alienzoo.com/features/m/200011160001.cfm

It has been speculated that this entire election cluster fuck has been orchestrated as a means to allow the New World Order’s One World Government to take complete and silent control of the US. By allowing the NWO sympathizer Al Gore to become president we will loose our national sovereignty. Not to say that electing George W. would be any better. There are forces working behind the scenes, at every level, within our government to see that this becomes a reality. This isn’t some paranoid “conspiracy theory.” During the last eight years Clinton has passed more executive orders in regards to FEMA and national emergencies than any other president. Could this election (or the possible civil uprising after the results) constitute a national emergency? Some of these executive orders were enacted to illegally and silently chisel away our constitutional rights. All of our constitutional rights would be suspended in the event of the president declaring a national emergency. The ideals of the NWO are not some euphoric, “Star Trek”-like, global alliance to harbor peace, personal freedoms, and civil rights. The One World Government would like to see us unarmed and weak, much like in Nazi Germany or the (Peoples’ – yeah, right) Republic of China. This will happen unless the people of this once-great nation stop it. Unfortunately as a population we are divided on nearly every issue (be it politics, religion, or even food preferences.) This is good for the NWO – divide and conquer. George Orwell may only have been off my 17 years...

Stock up on guns, ammo, and food. Formulate a contingency plan for when the shit hits the fan. I think things are going to get interesting...

 

Celebrate the short week.
And the even shoter threds of sanity.

Anyone Game?
 

http://www.botachtactical.com/
 

Currently the constitution, that EVERY elected official is sworn in to uphold, is being systematically destroyed by the left and there is no evidence to prove this otherwise..

For over 50 years, the liberal politicians, when not able to push there agendas through the system via the house/senate/executive branches, have fallen back on the judicial branch to force there ideas on a unwilling and lied to electorate, through interpretations of the rules of law. Nowhere in the founding fathers mentality was there any provisions for the laws that bind the good people together, to be applied in such a way to not have constancy. Everyone was to adhere to the same code of conduct. Having the courts decide eveything will lead to nothing more than judicial activism, which, in the past, is the only way that the left has been able to get there ideas to be applied. Liberalism has no ground rules that apply to it, only feelings, and what’s perceived to be better for the good of all. They are consumed by the need of having power and nothing will stand in their way, especially not an election. The country was not founded in liberalism, it was founded on the belief of personal freedom and liberty, and these are two things that the left will not ever support.

 

The standards change again.

But for the left its just business as usual. Does anyone remember impeachment?

Only through judicial/jury activism, can the liberals get there fundamentally flawed ideas ram-rodded through, to destroy the very things we, as Americans consider sacred...liberty, freedom, justice.

Again, as proved over and over again, the liberals will not respect the laws
that are needed for this great republic to remain in order. Clearly it is not their intent to respect the laws, or respect any portion of law that will not represent their side in the pursuit of there goals. The left has not respected the constitution or the rights of honest people for years, and nothing has presented itself to think that they ever had the " will of the people " in mind when any decisions have been made.

For years, only through the court system, has the agenda of liberalism been able to be "forced" on to the unwilling recipients of the United States of America. Too many Supreme Court cases, federal and state level, present themselves as proof. Only through deceitful practices, using people, criminals, the elderly, and now children, as pawns in there game, are they able to scare up support through doomsday rhetoric, to get there ideas shoved down our throats. People who oppose this form of "activism" are regarded as uncaring and hateful.

Lets look at why, we who accept responsibility for our actions don't look for government handouts. We have jobs, have gone to school, made personal sacrifices, to get where we
are today. We do not need to have rules passed to tell us the difference between right and wrong. We do not need the government, or any off-chute of said group, to regulate how we raise our children, nor do we want any interference in our homes, where we live. Being respectable people, we can take care of our own, and others in the community. We do not need a program stipulating how or when we need to do things, or take care of ourselves.

These things are clearly spelled out in the constitution, but only one side seems to respect the rule of law, which only stands to further the gap between people who want to live there life free, and those who would rather be a serf.

-Steve

 

at what point in american history did the elected officials stop respecting the laws that they took an oath and swore to uphold?

who was the first american offical to defy all respect for the rule of law?

Also, bring some mace and rotten vegetables to throw at all the protesters hanging out with Fargo near the entrance.

 

Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack has read the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution as well as Vermont's own Constitution very carefully, and his strict interpretation of these documents is popping some eyeballs in New England and elsewhere.

Maslack recently proposed a bill to register non-gun owners and require them to pay a $500 fee to the state. Thus Vermont would become the first state to require a permit for the luxury of going about unarmed and assess a fee of $500 for the privilege of not owning a gun.

Maslack read the "militia" phrase of the Second Amendment as not only affirming the right of the individual citizen to bear arms, but as a clear mandate to do so. He believes that universal gun ownership was advocated by the Framers of the Constitution as an antidote to a "monopoly of force" by the government as well as criminals.

Vermont's constitution states explicitly that "the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State" and those persons who "conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms" shall be required to "pay such equivalent." Clearly, says Maslack, Vermonters have a constitutional obligation to arm themselves so that they are capable of responding to "any situation that may arise".

Under the bill, adults who choose not to own a firearm would be required to register their name, address, Social Security Number, and driver's license number with the state. "There is a legitimate government interest in knowing who is prepared to defend the state should they be asked to do so," Maslack says.

Vermont already boasts a high rate of gun ownership along with the least restrictive laws of any state - it's currently the only state that allows a citizen to carry a concealed firearm without a permit. This combination of plenty of guns and few laws regulating them has resulted in a crime rate that is the third lowest in the nation.

Thank you Chad! Jomama please-PLEASE sell your Ruger. No offense dude but they just arn't good weapons. Sell it add 100 or 200 and get a decent gun. I say a Glock or SIG. Just my 2cents worth.

If you really need new MAGAZINES try Bills gun shop in Lilydale or the gun shop on 48 and chicago in MPLS.

As for calaveras, why don't you like cops. Unless your a criminal I can't see any valid reason for disliking cops. Oh, wait you could be a far leftist then you wouldn't like the police. Leftist/Criminal, hmmm.
 

I talked to Steve C on mon. night and he told me that you guys were going to the gun show I should know if I can by Thurs.

Unfortunetly I OWE the feds some cash this year. We bought our house too late in the year to have any effect on our return and both of us had part-time jobs that didn't withhold for shit. I'll have to come up with another way to fund my furtherence of my personal stash.

Oh, I know.... How about I introduce a illegal law to the house that will take from the surplus and give to ME for MY stash. I will claim that the fuel bills were unduly harsh on me and that the extra 500 to 600 I'll have to spend on natural gas was earmarked for GUNS. I think I might find a few DFL peoples dumb enough to vote for it!
 

[This message has been edited by P_McCracken (edited 09-28-2001).]
 

Thanks,

C
 

Information straight from River Centre wedsite.
 

[This message has been edited by P_McCracken (edited 09-28-2001).]
 

Jessica is 14 years old.

She knows how to shoot; her father taught her.

And there were adequate firearms to deal with the crisis that arose in
their home in Merced, Calif. -- a San Joaquin Valley farming community 130
miles southeast of San Francisco -- when 27-year-old Jonathon David Bruce
came calling on Wednesday morning, Aug. 23.

There was just one problem.

Under the new "safe storage" laws being enacted in California and
elsewhere, parents can be held criminally liable unless they lock up their
guns when their children are home alone... so that's just what law-abiding
parents John and Tephanie Carpenter had done.

Some of Jessica's siblings -- Anna, 13; Vanessa, 11; Ashley, 9; and John
William, 7 -- were still in their bedrooms when Bruce broke into the
farmhouse shortly after 9 a.m.

Bruce, who was armed with a pitchfork -- but to whom police remain unable
to attribute any motive -- had apparently cut the phone lines.

9-1-1 doesn't always work
So when he forced his way into the house and began stabbing the younger
children in their beds, Jessica's attempts to dial 9-1-1 didn't do much
good.

Next, the sensible girl ran for where the family guns were stored. But
they were locked up tight.

"When the 14-year-old girl ran to a nearby house to escape the
pitchfork-wielding man attacking her siblings," writes Kimi Yoshino of the
Fresno Bee, "she didn't ask her neighbor to call 9-1-1.

She begged him to grab his rifle and 'take care of this guy.'"

He didn't. Jessica ended up on the phone.

By the time Merced County sheriff's deputies arrived at the home,
7-year-old John William and 9-year-old Ashley Danielle were dead. Ashley
had apparently hung onto her assailant's leg long enough for her older
sisters to escape. Thirteen-year-old Anna was wounded but survived.

Once the deputies arrived, Bruce rushed them with his bloody pitchfork. So
they shot him dead. They shot him more than a dozen times. With their
guns.

 

I'm looking to buy a new gun. I want a 92fs stainless that was made in Italy. I also want three 15 round STAINLESS mags they should also be stamped "ITALY" I don't have to purchass them together.

Due to the fact that in the US we can't seem to use high quality steel my service gun is rusting. I know about 5 officers on the department that have stainless guns and they love them.

thanks
 

Guns are not going to go away!
Only good people will get hurt by restricting our right to defend ourselves from people who are not heeded by laws. People who think making a law will make the bad thing stop are just ignorant.

I just bought a townhome and the first thing i did after signing the purchase agreement was to go apply for a permit to purchase handguns. I have been through gun safety training and intend to be professionaly trained in using the handgun i purchase, So that, god forbid, i should ever need it to save my life or the life of someone i love then i can do so.

Chad

 

Skuzzy:
What in the world do we need guns for? So many people are killed everyday by guns and
for what? Why do we need to own these destructive items? Do people really need these types of things in a free world?
I cant figure it out.

Me:
What in the world do we need cars for? So many people are killed everyday by cars and
for what? Why do we need to own these destructive items? Do people really need these types of things in a free world?
I cant figure it out.

Hmmm... Fuck it, outlaw everything!

how about planning a " gun-fest "????

any takers???
 

one .44 MAG, 7.5 ", stainless, super-redhawk
very nice!
 

“Like a canoe.”

 

“Like a canoe.”

 

I had a (morbid but compelling) thought to use our color plotter at work to create some life size targets for an event like this. I would use the model in counterstrike of the terrorist arab guys with the red headbands! Since it is a character and not a picture of a real person i dont think if someone came across us they would really care. (not like they would say anything while seeing the arsenal we would have). But anyway is this a really good idea or a really bad one? I personally would find it a very good release of frustration and anger durring this time.
 

no. im not " in the buisness " of " re-selling " ANY firearms! i sell tractor parts for ziegler. and once in awhile, work on land cruisers.

if you are going to be carring a sidearm, i would suggest a stainless version of whatever you get.... the elements can be very damaging to a firearm that is not maintained REGULARLY!!!
 

BARRETT 82A-1, like new condition, with or without optics. please leave message.

thanks.
 

SEPTEMBER 22-23!!!

BROOKLY-DARK ARMORY!!!!

VISA/MASTER/ CASH-CASH-CASH!!!!

BRING YOUR PERMITS!!!!
 

I don't know if that is good pricing or not that good.
 

In Minnesota: Gopher Rifle and Revolver Club P.O. Box 18023 Minneapolis, MN 55418 --FCSA sanctioned 1000 yard range

"While the .50 BMG can be fun to shoot at any distance, it's really beginning to come into its own at target distances where lesser calibers just give up. Whether you're into target shooting at a mile distance, plinking at 1-foot diameter rocks 1000 yards away, or are simply amused by keeping all your shots touching at 100 yards, you're going to need a safe range to shoot."

[This message has been edited by P_McCracken (edited 09-21-2001).]
 

where is the photos????
 

SWITZERLAND is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.

Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.

Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.

All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.

It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.

When the Swiss government thought an invasion was imminent, it ordered every able-bodied man to stand by his post and defend it to the last round. Their determination, shooting skills, and the sheer quantity of weapons at their disposal persuaded Hitler that an invasion of Switzerland was not worth the cost and he should concentrate his efforts on conquering countries with strict gun control laws.

The nation's militia system requires males over 18 to be ready for a call to service.

Every Monday and Friday, men wearing uniforms and carrying weapons can be seen on commuter trains travelling to and from military camp for compulsory training.

Other countries have tennis courts and golf courses, the Swiss have shooting ranges. Almost every town has one, where reservists have to fire a set number of rounds each year to keep their weapons.

In restaurants and coffee shops, tourists sometimes find themselves competing with guns for places to hang their coats.

However, Switzerland is facing pressures for gun control.

Neighbouring countries are clamouring for tougher restrictions and the state parliament building shootings are likely to accelerate the demands.

- Sept 28th

 

This is a nice sidearm. US issue Berreta M9. Point and squeeze. Good accuracy and little recoil. Maitnance is an issue, but it's for the military. Hell all they do is drink, shoot, and polish boots. They clean these things more then there dirty asses.

[This message has been edited by Trany (edited 09-28-2001).]
 

Have you ever fired an automatic grenade launcher (Mark-19) off the top of a moving Humvee? Shined boots or not, it's pretty exciting. Especially when you're hungover or still drunk from the night before.

I was at an "Automatic Fire" range last year, and nothing is more amazing than the deep bass of the .50 cal sounding off over the sound of seven M-60s rattling away.

Call me simple, but I'm still a M16A2 kinda guy. That's my weapon, I love it. You give me anything else, I'll fire it...well. But until I can purchase my own fun little killing toys, I'll stick with my weapons the Army gives me.

And my boots are always shiny.

-Eric
 

[This message has been edited by cramer (edited 10-02-2001).]
 

[This message has been edited by Chadwick (edited 10-11-2001).]
 

H&K makes such kick-ass shit!!!!!
 

the cop says .223????

so the steel-core, full metal jacket rounds
i have, will do ok???
 

Or fire a 50cal or 7mm mag.
 

.45 LC caliber 3 1/2" barrel

[This message has been edited by P_McCracken (edited 10-13-2001).]
 

Level IV covers .3006 Armor-piercing, one round at 2850 fps.

NIJ certification of body armor is based on the level of blunt trauma to the wearer, not just whether it stops the round or not. The criteria is that when tested, the vest cannot make more than a 1.7" impression in the clay backstop behind it when it's hit by the round. That way the round is stopped and
your sternum isn't stapled to your spine
 

And lets not even mention a .50 cal round.
 

[This message has been edited by cramer (edited 10-23-2001).]
 

i NEED more!!!
 

http://popularmechanics.com/science/law_enforcement/2001/10/firearms_fingerprints/index.phtml
 

Should I?
 

Hey, pick me up one, too. Thanks.

-Boondock
 

i would try and find a pre-ban, collapsable butt-stock, 14.5" barrel w/bayonet lug. this
may be my christmas present to ME!!!! unless,
i can find a barrett.

happy hunting!
 

well.... do you?????

weak-minded people have bought into the bull-shit that the cunt from kalifornia, diane fienstien, and her brain-dead-cunt-buddy sara brady, have been selling. they have scared people to the point that everyone who wants to own a weapon, or likes to shoot, is a mass-murdering criminal. you know, only people who want to own an " assault " weapon
are those who are a threat to peace.
there is no reason whatsoever for the " average " subject to be armed with a weapon that is at all like that of the millitary.
so, that means:

" pre-ban " weapons will have all the " goodies " that you want, that, and a colt is going to fetch far more monies than your bushmaster or other AR-style, because it is a colt, and they are not made for the civillian market any longer. your new rifle cannot have:

no millitary-style flash suppressor, meaning,
it CANNOT have the same " thread-syle-pitch "of the wapons in the millitary. you can own a AR-style weapon with a muzzle-brake, it cannot be the " same " as the millitarys.

you CANNOT have a barrel length shorter than
16.50" ( i think). the pre-ban carbines had a 14.50" barrel option.

you cannot have a bayonet-lug on your rifle,
because we have had so many people killed in
" mass bayonettings ".

the stock lenght MUST be fixed, you cannot own a " new " rifle that has a colapseable butt-stock.

and you cannot have a detachable-box-type magazine that holds more than 10 rounds, sold with a new rifle.

you are not to have a pistol-grip on a rifle.
however, if the butt-stock/pistol grip are " one piece " its ok. ( see HK SL-8 .223 rifle)

this is not all the rules concerning
" assault " wapons. there are many sites out there that list all of the " baned " guns, ones that cannot be imported, or owned leagaly anymore...

of course, there are MANY loop-holes, just like any good american law. you are allowed
no more than two of the above options on your new weapon,one being the size of the box-type-detachable magazie,and im pretty sure the collapsable butt-stock is NOT one of them, UNLESS it is registerd as a HANDGUN, BY THE MANUFACTURE,
and im not aware of anyone who is marketing a .223 " handgun " other than the people in the twin-cities that sell a carbon-fiber rifle, and a " shorter " version, that is post-ban legal....for some reason. if memory serves, it had no butt-stock, took normal hi-cap mags, was under 16-18" OVERALL, and was as light as a feather. somewhere aroung the
700-900 range. i havnt seen one at a show lately...

the weapon you are looking at, the bushmaster, is a decent rifle, and you " could " modify it to what you want. you will need to invest some time in researching what you can and cannot do as far as mods go...wouldnt want to have an " illegal " firearm, and be jailed on charges of terrorism or whatever they can cook up...
 

Thats fuckin funny cramer.
Dude that had me and my roommate laughing our asses off. Its too bad this crap is all true.

I do understand why the new ones are more but i just cant drop that kind of cash. (what am i saying i cant drop any cash right now)
 

I did find out for sure that this thing does come with a 14.5" barrel.

[This message has been edited by Chadwick (edited 11-12-2001).]
 

Your Gun Show Loophole At Work
By Bob Ward
AllSouthwest News Columnist
11-14-1

The gun show was described by former President Bill Clinton as a bazaar for criminals where they could buy guns of any description and in any quantity in total anonymity. According to the gun-control mythology, at a gun show there are no background checks, no one asks for a name or address and your reason for wanting a fully automatic assault rifle with flash suppresser and attached grenade launcher is strictly your own business.

It was this vision that perhaps led the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (BCPGV) to declare that, "the gun show becomes a place where those planning to use guns in crime are able to meet unlicensed sellers and avoid the very laws meant to cut down on gun violence," it adds.

But once again, the gun controllers have been kicked in the pants by the facts. The U.S. Justice Department interviewed 18,000 state and federal prison inmates in 1991 and again in 1997.

It should be noted, in both those years the department was part of an administration that was amenable to gun control. In 1991, the President was George Bush was did not resist gun control and in 1997 the department was under the direction of Bill Clinton and Attorney-General, Janet Reno both of whom were rabid on the subject.

The responses of these prisoners simply knocked the "gun-show loophole" theory into a cocked hat. In 1997 less than one percent of violent offenders -- 0.7 percent to be exact -- acquired their guns at a gun show. That's fewer than one in a hundred.

Slightly more, one in a hundred, acquired their guns at flea markets. Purchases at pawn shops accounted for 3.8 percent of guns used by these convicts. And, despite the Brady law, sales at retail stores exceeded these other outlets at 8.3 percent, although this was still a minor source of guns for violent criminals.

Almost 80 percent of the guns used by these violent offenders were obtained from friends or family members, or purchased on the street or from other illegal sources. These transactions are obviously beyond the reach of any legislation and demonstrate the fact that so-called gun control laws only control the acquisition of guns by non-criminals, that is, the potential victims of those who are unhindered by such laws.

The Brady people also claim that an upsurge in gun violence due to gang and drug activity began in the late 1980s and that this created "an enormous demand" for military style "assault weapons" including the UZI, AK-47, AR-15 rifles, the TEN-9 and MAC10 handguns, and a shotgun with the sinister moniker, "Streetsweeper." Again, the Brady people lose to the facts. According to the Justice Dept. survey, about only eight percent of state and federal prisoners used military style semi-automatic weapons. In case the Brady people are still confused, that means 92 percent used something else -- something non-military and not semi-auto.

The DOJ report raises serious doubts about the effectiveness of gun laws in reducing gun-related crime. The Brady law indeed seems to have reduced the volume of criminals obtaining their guns from an ordinary retail store. In the 1997 survey, 14 percent of inmates had acquired their gun from a store, down from the 21 percent in 1991. But that doesn't mean the criminals did not obtain guns and use them. In fact, from 1991 to 1997 there was a slight increase in the number of inmates who reported using a gun. It was only a two to three percent increase but we were promised a reduction in criminal gun use with passage of Brady.

For that matter the 1993 crime bill with its ban on so-called assault weapons didn't pose much of a problem for criminals either. About half of he inmates with assault weapons got them by stealing them or by purchasing them from a drug dealer, a fence or elsewhere on the black market.

But gun control zealots, typically unmoved by experience or logic, are busy devising new ways to take guns away from law abiding citizens. The current enthusiasm is S-1438 National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2002. Section 1062 of the bill makes it illegal to possess "significant military equipment formerly owned by the Department of Defense."

This applies to everything on the U. S. Munitions List plus whatever the Secretary of Defense decides to include. The Munitions List includes "non-automatic, semiautomatic and fully automatic firearms (in other words all, small arms) to caliber .50 inclusive. You'll be allowed to own such weapons provided they are "de-militarized" which means rendered useless.

Some of the familiar weapons covered by this measure would be the venerable of Garand M-1 of WW II fame, the military .45 pistol, the AR-15 rifle and even the creaky old 1903 bolt-action rifle.

There's a reason the anti-gun forces are not persuaded by studies showing that gun laws don't reduce crime or the use of guns in crime. It's because crime is not their concern.

They are elitists who object to an armed population in principle. An armed citizenry is a characteristic of a system of government in which the people are sovereign and government is limited. That's what bothers them -- the riff-raff being in charge -- not crime. ___

Bob Ward is... Host of the Texas Journal Radio Show KIXL 970 AM Austin Editor of The Texas Journal Print Publication http://www.allsouthwest.com/columnists/bward.html

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