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Cramer
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I am looking at purchasing a camera... not a " insta-anything ", some sort of " real " camera...

Anyone have any input on which brand and why???

Nikon?

Minolta?

Cannon?

????????


Posts: 771 | From: Farmington | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Klaus
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Steve and I would definitely recommend Canon. I have had my Canon EOS for almost 10 years now and it has worked flawlessly. I have had dirt get in every part of it and it still works great. Try to get a body that had metal mounts on the front for the lens. I am not as up to speed with Canon’s models as I once was but stay away from the lower end models like the Rebel (all plastic). My brothers EOS-3 is a close to top of the line model (EOS-1) - I think the Elan is still mid level model. You should be able to find good deals on the internet (about 50% off retail). After you get a body you might check with my brother, he has a zoom lens that he upgraded he would probably sell you cheap.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Klaus
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One other note. I know your sister runs Minolta – also good cameras. They are a little cheaper and some of the models are smaller, but have good optics.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Trany
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Nikon, Are a good camera, a little spendy for lenses and shit. I do agree with Scott on the metal mounts. National Camera has some pretty good deals on used slr lenses and filters.
Posts: 740 | From: Tranyland Pending | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jomama
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Just my .02-cents. I agree w/klaus that Canons do seem to be arguably top dog (my dads had his AE-1 for about 20yrs now, still takes great pics). But, I've had a pentax for 11yrs now. Takes absolutely awsome pictures, great color, very crisp images. It does have the metal mounts for the lenses as klaus suggested.
Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cramer
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so,

is national camera the place to go around here for this stuff?? or is there somplace else? i guess for not knowing shit about this stuff, i would prefer looking at things and touching them before laying out a pile of cash for this shit. any other hints or cautions???


Posts: 771 | From: Farmington | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RockLobster
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Not that i pretend to know anything about this stuff.

I'm not sure but i think the camera's scott and others have suggested are very involved and not neccessarilly easy to use, learn, or in anyway automatic (though they may have an automatic setting). So, unless you intend on learning quite a bit about their use, it may not be something you want to shell out that much cash for. I would either get a cheaper one and just keep it in a case. Or go for a mid-low range 2.1MP Digital cammera. You can get good ones these days for 3-4 hundred and for an extra 100 get extra batteries, charger, case, cleaning kit, large memory card, and AC adapter. We reccently purchased a FujiFilm FinePix 2800 Zoom for our company and all the accessories on the net for around 425 total. It takes very good picturs has 6x zoom and the larger card can hold up to like 200 pictures. It is small and was easy to learn. You can download them on to a computer or just have them processed at many places like reagular film.

Just a thought. (I only say this as a person who never has any intention of getting WAY into this hobby.)


Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Trany
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National has a good selection, but you probally would get good deal online. If you are looking for used components, National has some good deals. Just swing by check out a few models and find the one. Then log on and search for deals.
Posts: 740 | From: Tranyland Pending | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jomama
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Not to start a debate w/chadwick about ease of use and such . But if your more inclined to a SLR-camera (I'm guessing you are, given your feelings about computers, which may transfer to digital cameras too ). Anyway, sittin down with Klaus or ProfBooty for 30min or so should be all the time needed to cover the finer points of taking pictures with a SLR (apature, shutterspeed, and film speed). With the built in light meters an such its pretty easy. Then its just a matter of messin around with it a bit, but unless your way off on apature or shut-speed, you'll still be taking decent pictures.......IMNSHO
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RockLobster
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No debate , My knowledge on this subject dosn't ammount to JACK SQUAT!!!!!
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cramer
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I just want a decent 35mm camera. I dont want to get a " junk " camera, nor am I ready to " go digital ". I have wanted a good camera for a while, but not been in a position to move on it. An oppertunity has arisen that has me VERY interested in capturing to film some of the things that I will be around, so BEFORE I get there, and HAVE to take pictures, I want to get a camera, and shoot 5-10 rolls of film, to learn about it, and what not to do.

I was asking for info, not attempting to create a digital vs. standard debate, and thanks to those who have responded.

have a great day.


Posts: 771 | From: Farmington | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jomama
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I was just messin w/ya ....Hey I've used both and they both have their plus's. As you said, if you want to mess around with a camera, and learn a little about photography (hey it's be fun to burn through some film just to see how different adjustments affect pictures), go SLR...... The digitals are very handy and easy to use, but as you pointed out, they can be very "instamatic...", some also have adjustable features that could be somewhat comparable to slr adjustments, although not as many micro-adjustments associated with shutterspeed/apature, which alone can produce some interesting options for pics......just another .02cents...
Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Klaus
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National camera exchange is the place to “look” at cameras, before you buy. I have done this with almost every camera and lens I have. After you find one you like – DO NOT buy from them, go to the internet find the same model, call the company to make sure they have it in stock and order. NCE is way over priced and they know it. I would expect 50% savings online. I bought my camera body with lens in a Canon kit for $650 in 1993 – the same camera was sold at NCE for over $1,200.

Joe is correct – today’s SLR (single lens reflex) cameras are very easy to use. Even Martin could take good pictures. The days of using a light meter by hand and adjusting the cameras aperture/shutter speed are gone. Any good SLR will meter the entire scene and pick the best combo of aperture/ss automatically. But the flexibility to make adjustments manually is there if you want it. Honestly, I let the camera automatically set everything about 80% of the time.


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Trany
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NCE has good deals on used gear. I would personally never buy a camera from them, but filters and possably a used lense. I have seen older cannon Tele-Photo 4x I belive for around 250 used, the retail was aound 850. If you get into filters they are roughly $20 for a set of 3-4. But then again if you have photo shop and a scaner/neg scaner you don't realy need filters.
Posts: 740 | From: Tranyland Pending | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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I've used my parents 35mm Mamiya 500TL since I was about 16. The camera was purchased new sometime between 1966-1968. It has automatic NOTHING. It has worked flawlessly everywhere I've taken it (although it has frozen up after going from a warm cabin into the sub-zero outside.) It doesn't have a flash and it's kind of a pain to stick one on it and get it to work, so I've mostly used it outdoors. Even after all the four wheeling in dust and mud it still takes great pictures. You just have to have an understanding of photography to take good pictures with it, and know how to focus. I've taken it to NCE to see if they knew where I could send it to get it cleaned but they had no idea (the action sticks once in a while, probably due to dust, but after 34-36 years what can you expect!)

After saying that, I don't think it's totally necessary to buy a camera with a bunch of great automatic gadgets and features that you'll never use. Basic automatic features will allow someone that knows nothing about photography to take great pictures without even trying, and have the option to get creative with different lenses. I’ve tried medium-expensive “junk cameras” just so I could take quick pictures with a flash. They worked, but I think I’ve gone though four of them (keep them away from large camp fires and out of the mud at Nasty and they’ll probably last longer. Oh, and off Land Cruiser tires! Also, don’t leave them on the trunk lid of your car and drive off. I think Paul Sanders did that with an expensive camera and a very expensive lens rendering them both useless.)


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ProfBooty
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My take on the digital vs. standard issue just for the record... Digital is convenient as hell and respectable but has a LOOOONNNG way to go before it'll be even close to film as far as quality goes. Unless however, you're willing to spend $3000 on a professional digital SLR body and another grand or two on a good lens. And of course, you'd have to get very comfy with computers - I'm sure you're all over that! I spent $800 on one of the higher quality consumer digital cameras a few years ago and my experience with it is why I've gone back to film and sunk a lot of money into my SLR gear. The digitals available at the consumer level are really just a digital version of the 'point 'n shoot' instamatics we've all come to loath. You have little to no control over the focus and that's been my biggest complaint. I'd center the subject in the focus cross-hairs, half-click the shutter, hear the focus motor adjust, repeat the process and still come back with a picture where the subject is blurred and the background crap is crisp and clear! Drove me nuts.

The autofocus on the SLR's today is not even in the same league as those on the crappy point 'n shoots. There's two big differences: 1) it's FAST!!! 2) you have very fine control over exactly WHAT you focus on. You put the subject in the focus box in the viewfinder, half-click the shutter and it instantly focuses on that point, faster than you could do it manually. You still have the option of doing everything manually if you want to though. These cameras can be as simple or complicated as you want them to be.

As far as NCE goes, like Tranny said, they're good for accessories. I bought my camera bag, filters, lens hoods and my film there and that's about it. The best deals I've found online so far is AAA Camera in New York. Their prices are about the best I've seen but you can't order online, you have to call them and they're kinda slow getting stuff out but worth the wait in most cases. I'd be happy to give you a rundown once you get your stuff, let me know. Good luck!


Posts: 402 | From: Mpls, MN | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cajun
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Hey Cramer,

Little late on this post. I've got an older SLR camera, 35mm that I bought back in high school because I wanted a "real camera". It's at the parent's place right now and I haven't used it in a while, so I don't recall if it is a Canon or a Nikon, but I think it is a Canon. Anyway, it is all manual with a light meter inside it that has a needle like on an oil pressure guage.

Takes a bit to get the hang of, but basically you set the shutter speed to what you want and the light meter points to an f-stop number (aperture) and you then adjust the aperture to that spot, then focus, then shoot. Simple. I haven't figured out yet whether mine has an electric shutter or not, though. I *think* it is manual. If you want a reliable camera, any of the good brands will do well, and look at older used ones. Take the battery out, and see if it will still fire the shutter. (wind, *click*) If it will, then you can still take pictures if there's no battery. No light meter, but if you've used it long enough to run a new battery down you might have gotten a decent idea of what speed/aperture combo to use. Most newer ones have electric shutters, so carry a spare battery. An old battery, when cold, won't do too good. (Similar to starting a truck with an old, cold battery...)

Takes some getting used to, but the cool thing is YOU control the focus and the depth of field. With high-speed film you can run a small aperture and still get a decent shutter speed. Smaller apertures give you a longer depth of field, so the truck AND the mountains in the distance will be in focus. Using a wide aperture setting, you can get the truck you're shooting in focus and the one 20 feet behind it is blurry...

Another thing to remember, most of the older manual cameras don't automatically read the ASA speed rating of the film off those "shiny strips" on the film roll. You have to set it on the camera yourself. Good thing about this is, you can get, say, 400 ASA speed film and shoot it at 800 ASA speed setting. You have to take it to a "better" photo shop, and tell them that it is "400 pushed to 800" but you'll get better twilight photos, if a bit grainy. Go with 800 pushed to 1600 and you can shoot in, say, a darkish concert hall environment and get decent, if grainy, pictures. Advantage is being able to capture something that is moving that would otherwise blur on a slower shutter speed because pushing the film lets you shoot with a faster shutter speed.

Of course, since I haven't done any of this in a few years, I'm rambling and my info is suspect. :-)

Oh, one other thing: if you get into it, you can set up a black and white film darkroom fairly easily/cheaply and do your own prints. Not as easy or cheap as getting the photo place to do it, but it is interesting and YOU are in control. It also allows you to develop otherwise "questionable" photos without fear that anyone else will see it or put it on the internet or show it to the cops or something. Color photos can also be self-developed, but it uses more chemicals, is a longer process, and has to be done in TOTAL DARKNESS so you have to really know where everything is. With black and white film, you do the unloading of the film from the canister, threading it onto the developing reel, and putting it into the chemical container in the total dark. Then you do the chemicals, shaking, draining, removing, squeegeeing and hanging up the film in regular light, and you can use red lights in the print lab.

Oy, too much info... Oh, and I paid like $160 or so for the body, case, lens, filter, cap, special lens cleaning paper (NO TISSUES! NO T-SHIRTS!) backin about '91 for a used camera. Never let me down, but I put it away 'cause I lost interest...
-Will


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