I have been investigating a couple different ways to generate power at the cabin for the ARB fridge and maybe a few small DC lights. After looking at solar power and the associated cost (high) I don't think it's a viable solution. There is only about 4-5 good hours of direct sunlight a day for solar power. With the fridge running 24 hours a day at about 1 amp an hour - the battery would need to be recharged in that 5 hour period everyday. I would guess it would cost $500-$800 to get enough solar panels to do this. Check out this solution -
What I think would probably work best is using the creeks water to power a small generator because it would be charging the battery 24 hours a day. Check out this set up using a squirl cage fan - http://www.otherpower.com/othe rpower_experiments_waterwheel.html
What do you think Martin you are the engineer??
[ 08-27-2003, 15:25: Message edited by: Klaus ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Its likely you'll need a permit from DNR to "construct or place" anything in the creek (are there fish in it???) Despite running thru your property its unlikely you have water rights to it or own the creek bed.
What about extending your available solar by getting the panels above the trees on a pole?
Additionally look at a wind turbine. You'd need a pole as well to get it up above/even w/tree tops. http://www.awea.org/ Looking closely that'd be a lot of $$$ as well. But I think itd be more reliable than solar (not sure on your location).
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
I forgot about the creek bed police lol. You are probably correct that a permit is needed but I am comfortable with placing a small water wheel into the creek with out getting one.
The problem with the location is it's in a valley and while it's quite windy above the trees - it's just too far up there to put anything. Same goes for solar - maybe a system that moves with the sun would work better, but it's still in a valley.
Posted by Hauserdaddy (Member # 50) on :
Jo, I took a bath and then a dump in the river this spring... Can I get a ticket/fine for doing that? Would I be able to sue the DNR for them not roping off the river because I got the most horrible diarrhea from drinking the water... Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Are there fish? While a passive wheel to the side of a creek wouldn't likely be a big deal, the plans that you posted have a small dam. Impeding fish passage would be a big no-no with DNR I would think (particularly when you don't own the water rights I'm assuming).
and hauser no, and no. Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
There were fish back maybe 10 years ago, but the creek freezes soild in most places in the winter. It's a trout stream and we are about 3 miles from the mouth. Our upstream neighbors have had a dam for about the last 20 years without issue.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: There were fish back maybe 10 years ago, but the creek freezes soild in most places in the winter. It's a trout stream and we are about 3 miles from the mouth. Our upstream neighbors have had a dam for about the last 20 years without issue.
Not to start a debate on this. But I'm quite sure the freezing has little to do with no fish, where as I'd speculate that the timing of the disappearance of fish and the dam in the river is not a coincidence. Particularly if the fish were trout. They would of used the stream in the spring/summer for spawning/rearing but they would of moved downstream to deeper water for winter (even into the lakes). If the river gets blocked (like a dam), and impedes fish movement to spawning/rearing habitat, it'll take a little time, but eventually you'll drastically reduce or kill off the local population (cant use the headwaters habitat upstream of the damn, typically where spawning/rearing habitat is).
Don't get me wrong, I think the water wheel (w/out a dam) is a ingenious idea (Infinetly better than using a noisiy expensive generator). But dams suck.
{Edit} The point is moot given they're arnt fish now, and they're is already a damn upstream.
[ 08-27-2003, 16:58: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
We're damning the fucker up baby!
with an inset turbine and a spillway.
All the power you will need.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
The DNR has done extensive research on the river because of some erosion issues and silt in the water. I understand it contributed to the river not supporting fish any longer. Biggest reason they sighted in a report I read was open areas in the forest from logging and people clearing for cabins making the snow melt too fast and carrying silk into the river. I don't know if I buy that 100% because 15 years ago the tree cover was pretty much the same.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Well those cause & effects are pretty well documented, same thing happens when cattle graze along streams. Its the immediate streamside zone thats impacted by just the smallest changes in vegetation. Its not always the trees in the forest, its all the tramling and denuding of vegetation stabilizing the streambanks when you log trees from riparian areas. I would say your even more susceptable than western streams due to your loose, loamy, black soil. Increased siltation = Increased turbidity = equals a whole shitstorm of problems for fish and stream ecology in general. Lower light penetration = lower photosynthesis = lower Oxygen content which effects other aspects of water chemisty like ph and alkalinity, and impacts aquatic bug populations which fish feed on. Increased siltation fills in the rocky spawning zones fish use to lay their eggs in. Common problem anywhere riparian zones are removed or altered.
Another example of riparian zone impacts. The chain of lakes where my parents cabin is, is more weedy than it ever was when I was a kid, with more attempted "weed control" now than ever.
Know what all those weeds are from. All the fertilizer running off from all the green lawns people now have on the lake that they didn't have 20-30 yrs ago.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Seems the project your thinking of is commonally termed "micro hydro power" (for internet searches).
Heres one of the best sites I found w/lots of links.http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/hydro.htm
How bigs your creek??? Cause theres kinda two catagories, low-head and high-head, and I would assume you have a low-head creek.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
It's probably 10-15 feet wide and only really moves in the spring. Sometimes it's just a trickle in the later summer.
Posted by Trany (Member # 31) on :
what is the viable opertunity for a wind turbine? I dont know the cost, but there is always wind on the north shore.
Posted by Trany (Member # 31) on :
I found a link, I think though you could find a cheeper dealer.
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no, and no. ![[finger]](graemlins/finger.gif)