posted
From my sources I have gotten a transcript of the actual call Kerry made to Bush.....
Bush: The is the Prez, what can I do you for?
Kerry: Mr. President, this is Senator Ker-
Bush: Hang on a second... (toilet flush noise from backround) Bush: Sorry about that, I just love that sound, who's this again?
Kerry: This is Senator Kerry Mr. President, I'm called to congratulate you on a good compaign and to inform you that I concede.
Bush: You didn't win yet!
Kerry: No Mr. President, concede means that I admit that you won. Congratulations.
Bush: Oh, thanks, and I'd want you to know that you lead a great campaign you were definitely a admirable worth opponent. Also I'd like to let you know that losersayswhat.
Kerry: What was that Mr. President? Bush: losersayswhat.
Kerry: One more time sir, I didn't catch that. Bush: losersaysWHAT
Kerry: What?
Bush: Hah! Gotcha! You just admitting to being a loser and that means I win the election!
Kerry: That's what I called to tell you Mr. President, I said that I conce-
Bush: Flipflopper! NOW you say that after I made you admit it!
Kerry: This really isn't nessessary Mr Pres-
Bush: Hang on a second. (toilet flush noise from backround)
Bush: This is the Prez what can I do you for?
Kerry: This is still Senator Kerry sir.
Bush: What can I do for you SENATOR Kerry, who isn't going to be the president.
Kerry: I don't know, I guess I'd like to hear you say that I lead a tough campaign and that you hope I'm proud of the effort I put in and that I should be."
Bush: You lead a tough campaign? Yeah you did. Anything you try to do that I don't like is going to be tough! I'm the President of the United States! I gived you a good ol' Texas Ass woopin ya' pinko! And I do hope you're proud of the effort you put in! You sould be considering it's the first thing you did that required any effort besides living with that she bitch millionare. What kind of idiot would marry a woman like that? Can I get a hell yeah?! (Silence)
Kerry: I...um.....Congratulations Mr. President. (Hangs up)
Bush: This land is your land, this land is my land! You're a liberal weenier, I'm a great crusa-a-der, this land only belongs to meeeeeee! WOOOHOOO! (Hangs up)
posted
Amy and Joe - Your posts just show the type of BS we have been hearing for the last year. The American people didn't buy it but I guess you did. Personal attacks on the President of the USA that graduated from Yale etc. Stick to the issues.
And Amy I seriously think as a small business owner you will be better served by Bush policies. Maybe you don't make much money at the moment and therefore don't need the tax deductions that will now be made permanent, but some day soon you might. I hope that Bush follows through with his plan to allow small businesses to join together to get cheaper healthcare. Did you know that under Clinton small business owners (Schedule C) were not able to deduct healthcare premiums on there tax returns. Bush has made 100% of premiums deductible on your business schedule C. That means you are getting close to a 30% discount on healthcare coverage.
Tax cuts do work Joe - they help stimulate the economy. They put more money in small business owners pockets. Something like 3 of 4 new jobs are created by small business. If they have extra income, they are more able to hire more workers. I could go into S corps etc.... maybe some other time.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Bush has a higher IQ then Kerry.
Pfffftt
edit: Oh, that was a joke right... srry forgot to laugh
I don't believe this 100% just it's fun....
Mr. Kerry's SAT score is not known, but now Mr. Sailer has done a comparison of the intelligence tests in the candidates' military records. They are not formal I.Q. tests, but Mr. Sailer says they are similar enough to make reasonable extrapolations.
Mr. Bush's score on the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test at age 22 again suggests that his I.Q was the mid-120's, putting Mr. Bush in about the 95th percentile of the population, according to Mr. Sailer. Mr. Kerry's I.Q. was about 120, in the 91st percentile, according to Mr. Sailer's extrapolation of his score at age 22 on the Navy Officer Qualification Test.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Amy and Joe - Your posts just show the type of BS we have been hearing for the last year. The American people didn't buy it but I guess you did. Personal attacks on the President of the USA that graduated from Yale etc. Stick to the issues.
To say that the personal attacks were one sided is just nonsense, and why I don't buy into any of it.... (and you guys made all types of personal attacks on Kerry and his wife? Bush is off limits, but any challenger isn't??? Bullshit hypocracy....)
Ya, a C student at Yale, who instead of embracing the opportunity of a privlidged education focused on being the President of the biggest Party Frat at Yale...
and please spare me "the American People have spoken" mandate bullshit.... 4 mil vote difference out of approx 250 mil people in the country is 1.6% of the population made the difference.... (or out of approx 115mil voters, 4 mil voter diff = 3.4%) hardly a "mandate" I would of never claimed that a Kerry Victory of any margin was any type of Mandate by the American Public.... its just nonsense....
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Seems from this map that Kerry supporters lived around large bodies of water...... [/QB]
Because those who voted for Bush are soulless, bloodless, mindless, evil zombies who only need to kill abortion doctors, gays, and environmentalist for sustanance...
posted
you're correct, I do buy into the social issues. I am not in the top 2% income bracket that a tax cut helps. And those of you who make around $50K don't really benefit from it either. Oh, that $200 you got back goes really far! I guess it bought you a paintball gun
What's really annoying is the sole reason Bush won is the gay marriage issue. He got all the religious people out to vote because if Kerry got in those damn gays could marry. (and the Irony of it is Cheney's daughter!) And Bush can't even ban them, he can only try to push it thru. And you know this is true, this is why the undecided people voted for Bush. Who the fuck cares if gays marry?? WHo does it hurt? Where is the seperation of church and state???
Oh, and now I can write off all of my health premiums, oooo. While i'm not complaining because it IS a good thing, I still can't afford my premiums. The majority of the uninsured are self-employed. What does that say??? I am so sick of people bitching about how much they pay for health care thru their employer (usually $100 a month for health, dental and vision, and usually have a $20 co-pay no ded.). I pay $110 a month and Brad pays $160 for a high ded. and no co-pay, and 80/20 afterwards. I can write off the premium, but what if I actually get sick or have to have surgery??? (rub the bunions for me please Scott, they are really getting sore right now! ) What else has Bush done for SBOs?? Or SOBs for that matter??
posted
Your social issue concerns are valid but I doubt they are in any jeopardy.
The top 2% line you said a couple times is just wrong. It's one way of looking at the aggregate dollars saved by tax payers under the Bush plan. But our tax system is based on tax brackets and of course if you don't pay any taxes you won't get a "tax cut". Here is a before and after the Bush tax cuts:
As you can see everyone benefited from the tax cut. I received a check for almost $600 (this was for a little over 6 months because the cuts were retro-active to the beginning of the year 2 years ago). On average someone making $30,000 a year saves close to $900 a year from the new rates. AND HERE IS THE KICKER>>>>>The government actually collected MORE tax revenue after the cuts. Why? because small businesses keep more money and are encouraged to expand and make more money (therefore more tax revenue). 39.6% is pretty high don't you think? Plus state and social security tax doesn’t leave much incentive to make another dollar of income for a small business owner.
I have a similar plan to Brad's healthcare from my work. 80/20 up to a cap of $700 a year. I pay nothing out of my check (my employer pays my $110 a month). For the $700 I have at risk - I have a medical savings account (125 plan) though my employer. This is tax free money to be spent on medical "stuff" (co-pays, contacts, glasses, prescriptions, etc). $110 a month is pretty cheap and since you can deduct it it's really only costing you about $80 a month.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I pay $100 a month for a healthcare plan that doesnt include dental or vision, and has a $1,000 deductable with a $1800 out of poket maximum. No co-pay, so you have to pay all health bills under $1000 out of your own poket.
Of course, this is an individual plan not through a company. But still....
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: I pay nothing out of my check (my employer pays my $110 a month). For the $700 I have at risk - I have a medical savings account (125 plan) though my employer. .
Exactly. I pay $1320 a year in premiums, I have to pay this out of pocket even though I can write it all off at the end of the year - I'm sure you understand cash flow, this makes cash flow tough when I also pay biz insurance, liability insurance, disability insurance, life insurance, and auto insurance and homeowners insurance. Considering I am in 15% tax bracket, my "fully deductible insurance" still costs ME $93.50 a month. My employer isn't paying anything
Now, I also have to pay my $1000 deductible and the $2500 out of pocket if I have a surgery etc. PLUS I have a seperate $500 ded. for prescriptions. Suddenly I have to pay $5320 a year for medical, which I can ONLY write off the premiums. On top of this, I don't even have access to a flex spending account to put up to $3000 in to save up for some of my expenses, including contacts etc.
I used to work in HR, I know the back side of insurance from a large biz stand point and it isn't any better. Brad deals with insurance on a daily basis as a Doctor. I think we fully understand insurance.
Kerry proposed a program to give everyone the same affordable options that federal employees receive. It wasn't to be government controlled as Bush made it out to be. Insurance companies are the ones controlling it right now.
-------------------- Clinton '08!!!! Posts: 211 | From: Shakopee, MN | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
All the expenses you are describing are fully deductable. You are understating your tax liability also. You as a small business owner are responible for the following taxes:
Federal - assume 15% Social Security 7.65% Self employment tax 7.65% (employer match) State 5%
Total 35%
Once you hit the 25% bracket you are almost pushing 50% tax......Those deductions are worth a lot to you.
Kerry's healthcare plan had a big problem....how were we going to pay for it???
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Kerry's healthcare plan had a big problem....how were we going to pay for it???
RAISE TAXES! Roll back Bush's tax cuts on the top 2% and that would pay for it!
Plus I think as an accountant you would understand that the more people on a plan, the lower the rates are. Just like as an employer if I had over 10 employees, I could get group insurance WAY cheaper with better benefits! The majority of small biz's DONT have 10 employees or more! Bush keeps talking about small bizs banning together for group rates, but he has never done this, all talk!
Brad has to play online poker to pay for his health care premiums
-------------------- Clinton '08!!!! Posts: 211 | From: Shakopee, MN | Registered: Aug 2004
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The problem is easy to solve. Financial controll and responsability. Have little to no high intrest debt and live within your means. If that doesnt work get another job, or sell crack. The DFL's response is handouts, so let us use this tried and true method. It is bull shit!
Posts: 740 | From: Tranyland Pending | Registered: Oct 2000
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Trany is actually pretty much right........
Ok, Amy I see that I am not getting through to you at all...... I just showed the changes under the Bush tax reform and you ignore the example and start with the top 2% bullshit.....
You might consider moving to Canada to take advantage of their medical coverage... maybe you can get your bunyons fixed in about 2010. Oh and pay 30% sales tax on everything you purchase. Goodluck
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Sorry, but I think its ridiculous to think that with Kerry as prez the whole country would of just fallen to pieces, particularly given the outcome of the Senate/House races now THATS! being a drama queen .
So, whatever, I know nothing about anything according to you, so why do you bother asking?
Joe I didn't say you don't know anything. I was just simply asking what you actually found that kerry was going to do so drastically different from bush.
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Kerry's healthcare plan had a big problem....how were we going to pay for it???
RAISE TAXES! Roll back Bush's tax cuts on the top 2% and that would pay for it!
Plus I think as an accountant you would understand that the more people on a plan, the lower the rates are. Just like as an employer if I had over 10 employees, I could get group insurance WAY cheaper with better benefits! The majority of small biz's DONT have 10 employees or more! Bush keeps talking about small bizs banning together for group rates, but he has never done this, all talk!
Brad has to play online poker to pay for his health care premiums
Actually amy you don't need to have ten. We only have 4 and only 3 are on our plan. I have full 100% coverage no deductable with 15 copay for just about everything and our buisness pays 132/mo for that. I think you need to find a new insurer. At ten it wouldnt be any cheaper because we band with other small buisnesses already. It's call private Medica Choice Select.
Works great!
And if you think rolling back top 2% earner tax cuts would pay for socialized health care you need to take another look at the numbers.
IF YOU PEOPLE THINK HEALTH CARE COSTS ARE OUT OF CONTROL NOW JJJJUUUUUUSSSST WAIT UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT HAS CONTROL AND EITHER FULLY MANDATES WHEN YOU CAN SEE YOUR DOCTOR AND WHAT TREATMENTS YOU CAN GET AND WHEN>>>>OR>>>>THE SYSTEM IS EVEN MORE OVERLY USED THAN IT IS NOW CAUSE "HECK THE GOV WILL JUST COVER IT"
Some of you need to read about what goes on as far as waiting lists for needed surgures in countries with socialized health care.....god help us all and on top of that taking home less than 50% of your earnings.
NO THANKS I'LL GO LIVE IN THE OUTBACK WITH MY USP 40 and a first aid kit before I deal with that shit!!!
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by flamingoamyjo: you're correct, I do buy into the social issues. I am not in the top 2% income bracket that a tax cut helps. And those of you who make around $50K don't really benefit from it either. Oh, that $200 you got back goes really far! I guess it bought you a paintball gun
My standard response to this is OK. So we raise taxes. When does it end?!?! When is enough Enough?? When society and the economy colapse under the weight of endless social programs for the ever growing majority who will not pull their own weight in society?!?!?!
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Sorry, but I think its ridiculous to think that with Kerry as prez the whole country would of just fallen to pieces, particularly given the outcome of the Senate/House races now THATS! being a drama queen .
So, whatever, I know nothing about anything according to you, so why do you bother asking?
Joe I didn't say you don't know anything. I was just simply asking what you actually found that kerry was going to do so drastically different from bush.
And my reasoning that I hold Bush accountable for his actions unlike 51% of the country seems to be something you just gloss over
B.J.'s in the whitehouse is a national crisis calling for impeachment but don't touch the sacred Bush doll....
And yes while you've not said it directly you've insulted me over and over in my genuine attempt to bring interesting discussion here.... so I'll just play the asshole liberal leftist role I've been potrayed as so you can all have your sterotypical liberal sounding board and suck each others dicks over how smart and conservative you all are...
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Sorry, but I think its ridiculous to think that with Kerry as prez the whole country would of just fallen to pieces, particularly given the outcome of the Senate/House races now THATS! being a drama queen .
So, whatever, I know nothing about anything according to you, so why do you bother asking?
Joe I didn't say you don't know anything. I was just simply asking what you actually found that kerry was going to do so drastically different from bush.
And my reasoning that I hold Bush accountable for his actions unlike 51% of the country seems to be something you just gloss over
B.J.'s in the whitehouse is a national crisis calling for impeachment but don't touch the sacred Bush doll....
And yes while you've not said it directly you've insulted me over and over in my genuine attempt to bring interesting discussion here.... so I'll just play the asshole liberal leftist role I've been potrayed as so you can all have your sterotypical liberal sounding board and suck each others dicks over how smart and conservative you all are...
Now Joe, just take a powder, we are all friends here no need to spiral further into dimentia on my account....everything is going to be ok....
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chadwick: [QBActually amy you don't need to have ten. We only have 4 and only 3 are on our plan. I think you need to find a new insurer. IF YOU PEOPLE THINK HEALTH CARE COSTS ARE OUT OF CONTROL NOW JJJJUUUUUUSSSST WAIT UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT HAS CONTROL AND EITHER FULLY MANDATES WHEN YOU CAN SEE YOUR DOCTOR AND WHAT TREATMENTS YOU CAN GET AND WHEN>>>>OR>>>>THE SYSTEM IS EVEN MORE OVERLY USED THAN IT IS NOW CAUSE "HECK THE GOV WILL JUST COVER IT"
First off, yes you can get group insurance with just two people, however, there are NO breaks until you get to 10. Your dads biz chooses to pay for this. Find out how much it costs per person, I bet you its close to $600-$800. At Pechiney we paid $1300 per emplyee for their benefits. IS that not insane??
Believe me, I have looked into this with the state, multiple insurance agents, and the MN Chamber of Commerce (who offers group benefits to small bizs with 10 or more employees).
You people think I don't seem to know anything! Living within your means isn't as easy as you think when your self employed and have to invest your money back into your biz. Brad cleared $1000 last year after taxes (yes, that is only three zeros) and I cleared $14000. And I was actually working three jobs last year! I actually think Brad and I live well within our means, you don't see us buying toys we dont need!! You dont see us taking any handouts even though we probably qualify for welfare and foodstamps!
Second, Kerry is NOT for government controlled insurance like Bush tries to make it appear. (man, and you think YOUR NOT getting thru to ME!) He wants everyone to have affordable, quality insurance just like he is entitled to.
As for moving to Canada, maybe I should. My parents have to pay $800 a month just for supplemental insurance to help cover their prescription costs. Since Bush won't allow us to import drugs from Canada. I would have to believe that all of you think that is dumb. Brad's parents had to go back to work when they moved to Florida JUST so they could get group benefits. She was deemed uninsurable because she has breast implants from 15 years ago due to a total masectomy. Now you have to think that is ridiculous. What is WRONG with this country????
And for the hand outs Tranny speaks of and Klaus actually agrees with. Bush has cut all funding to Planned Parenthood, which is where MANY of the country's women turn to for affordable birth control and STD treatment. If we take away their access to that, and on top of it take away abortion, there will be a whole hell of a lot more people on welfare.
quote:Originally posted by flamingoamyjo: Brad has to play online poker to pay for his health care premiums
How do you think i pay for all my insurance premiums?
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Now Joe, just take a powder, we are all friends here no need to spiral further into dimentia on my account....everything is going to be ok....[/QB]
Thank you for making my point for me again..
Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
First of all Joe, and Amy Jo. I am not personally attacking either of you. Just having a discussion here so don't take anything I say as a personal attack...
quote:Originally posted by flamingoamyjo:
First off, yes you can get group insurance with just two people, however, there are NO breaks until you get to 10. Your dads biz chooses to pay for this. Find out how much it costs per person, I bet you its close to $600-$800. At Pechiney we paid $1300 per emplyee for their benefits. IS that not insane??
It is nowhere near that per person. When we started coverage It was 132 for me and maybe double that for my bosses (dad and his buisness partner) due to their age.
quote: You people think I don't seem to know anything! Living within your means isn't as easy as you think when your self employed and have to invest your money back into your biz. Brad cleared $1000 last year after taxes (yes, that is only three zeros) and I cleared $14000. And I was actually working three jobs last year! I actually think Brad and I live well within our means, you don't see us buying toys we dont need!! You dont see us taking any handouts even though we probably qualify for welfare and foodstamps!
I may not technically "own" a small buisness but I do work for one that I helped start. Belive me I understand the plight of small buisnesses and Kerry's rasing taxes on small buisness was not the answer. Not for me. And not for you. I do not pretend to know exactly what you and brad do and how the numbers work out. I do know that there is alot of work in being part of a very small buisness. 60+ hour work weeks and constant marketing. I work hard so that I can play hard and buy toys. Leaving a 5pm rarely happens for me. I work many weekends and nights. When computers go down here I don't get to just "call I.T.". It is admirable that you do not take handouts that you could. And any self employed person or small buisness owner has lots of work and no job security to speak of. Yet we often get paid less. And you wonder why I am so frustrated with the "blue" party and all its support of UNIONS. Unions that force buisnesses to pay workers beyond what they take in.....
quote: Second, Kerry is NOT for government controlled insurance like Bush tries to make it appear. (man, and you think YOUR NOT getting thru to ME!) He wants everyone to have affordable, quality insurance just like he is entitled to.
This is the EXACT problem I am talking about. I understand medical assistance baised on need TO A POINT. BUT, NOT EVERY PERSON in this country is ENTITLED to have health care. If you can work part of what you are working for is your health care, accept that as a responsible citizen and move on to trying to lower the cost of health care and having a more use baised pricing system. Meaning if you abuse the system you pay for over using it. The entitlement mentality in this country is what will ultimatly destroy our little democratic experiment.
Another point is that NO ONE is denied medical treatment in this country when they need it....That, IS FACT.
quote: As for moving to Canada, maybe I should. My parents have to pay $800 a month just for supplemental insurance to help cover their prescription costs. Since Bush won't allow us to import drugs from Canada. I would have to believe that all of you think that is dumb. Brad's parents had to go back to work when they moved to Florida JUST so they could get group benefits. She was deemed uninsurable because she has breast implants from 15 years ago due to a total masectomy. Now you have to think that is ridiculous. What is WRONG with this country????
Any health care worker with a macro understanding of economics and health care will tell you importing drugs from canada is a POOR short sighted BAD patch to the problem. Socialized health care in other countries is one of the reasons health care is so expensive in this country. This is one area where W has no good answers, BUT Kerry had no good answers either.
posted
First of all Chad, i know you're not attacking me!
Here is the real kicker. So Brad could get Minn Care if he chose to go without insurance for 4 months (which is their requirement), HOWEVER, he has a prexisting medical condition. If he drops insurance, he will be uninsurable due to prexisiting conditions. He has no choice but to keep his insurance.
You're only entitled to treatment if it is a life threatening emergency. If Brad didn't have insurance and needed a heart surgery or heart medication, he would have to find a way to pay for it.
I don't think there is a big problem with people overusing their insurance. How do you even do that??
You are right, people work for their insurance at companies, but that company pays a HUGE premium. Like I said, I know for a fact that Pechiney paid $1300 per employee per month at our plant alone which had 200 employees. All it takes is a few older people or sick people on the plan to raise it for all of them. And then people bitch when their premiums go up from $50 a month to $75.
It truly is ridiculus.
-------------------- Clinton '08!!!! Posts: 211 | From: Shakopee, MN | Registered: Aug 2004
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Tell me again, why is it the top 2% responsibility to pay for Premiun health care insurance for the rest of us? I think many people loose sight of the fact that rich people are priveledged and that's just the way it is. It doesn't give the government or us the right to take their money away at significantly higher rates just so we can attempt to live up to their standard. As it is our tax system discourages people from getting too rich as they are taxed, in my opinion, way too much. Why is it a function of our government to assure that everyone has a PREMIUM health care package? IT IS NOT! It is the function of our government to assure that once you have exhausted all your resources you get BASIC health care. That is exactly what is provided right now under programs like Minnesota care. Amy, I think you understand the health care system fully and I do think it sucks that it is difficult for you to afford health care insurance. However, I think your reasoning that simply taxing people more to make it easier for everyone to afford Premium Health care is baseless and wrong. I think it should be the governments responsibility to reform our system of justice so doctors don't have to pay 300 to 400 thousand a year in malpractice insurance. Posts: 486 | From: Eagan, MN | Registered: Oct 2000
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Oh, and I was kidding about the female president thing. I would probably vote for a female Republican! Posts: 486 | From: Eagan, MN | Registered: Oct 2000
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Very good post Chad - sums up a lot of my feeling about health care. There are a lot of problems with the current system. I hope Bush can make changes for small business and tort reform to lower costs. I do believe socialized healthcare is not the answer. Competition is what this country is built on - it's as simple as that. Insurance companies need to compete for your business. These huge lawsuits drive up costs and need to be capped.
I like my health plan - I get to choose when and if I will go to the doctor. I am rewarded for not going. I get to keep my 125 plan spending account money if I don't spend it. Problem with socialized systems are that people go to the doctor for every little problem. This drives up costs and makes appointments tough to get.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Now Joe, just take a powder, we are all friends here no need to spiral further into dimentia on my account....everything is going to be ok....
posted
I have never once said the government should PAY for insurance. (and I was kidding about the raise taxes for it part). The government SHOULD help regulate the insurance companies so they don't keep getting richer and richer off our money. Brad can tell you all about how little the insurance companies will pay the doctors who have done the work on the patients.
-------------------- Clinton '08!!!! Posts: 211 | From: Shakopee, MN | Registered: Aug 2004
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I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling... Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Tax cuts do work Joe - they help stimulate the economy. They put more money in small business owners pockets. Something like 3 of 4 new jobs are created by small business. If they have extra income, they are more able to hire more workers. I could go into S corps etc.... maybe some other time.
They didn't work under Bush, Sr. and they curently haven't worked under W. Our economy was booming under Clinton whose economic policies was to "pay as you go". Clinton had record surpluses. You have to have a balanced budget. If you have a program you want, you have to pay for it. If that means raising taxes, so be it. That is why it was asinine for Bush to give a tax cut during an expensive war he needs to pay for.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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Its easy, donk smoke crack while driving drunk with a heart condition.
It is personal responsability, you need to be held accountable for your actions. Why should we pay to treat your diabeties because you couldnt controll your diet? why should we pay for your angioplasty due to the fact you at Mcdonalds for 20 years? If you cant afford to pay your premiums, figure it out. If you proffession/job are inadaquate to sustain a financial obligation to pay for your health care, then I am sorry you made the wrong carrer choice. If you are in debt because you maxed out your mastercard on internet porn and are now being raped with a 25%apr, too fucking bad. handouts are what you are looking for, and the plate is empty.
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You have the typical thinking that most people have; that to shrink the deficit and have a blanaced budget, you need to 1. Raise taxes or 2. Cut spending. Either way, you are cutting the supply of money in the economy, which hurts business whether you are big or small. The golden rule in economics is that to have a growing ecomonyg, you need a growing supply of money. Raising taxes will not do that and is not the most effective way to shrink the defecit. Scott is right, tax cuts do spur the economy and the reason that the middle and upper class tend to be the target is because these people are more likesly to reinvest the money rather then spend it on something useless. That is the goal of tax cuts with the government; put money back in the hands of the investors that will use save it through various methods such as government bonds, etc. (i.e. giving the money back to the government to reduce the deficit or fund whatever programs it wants all while strengthing the economy).
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
) What else has Bush done for SBOs?? Or SOBs for that matter??
![[sex]](graemlins/sex.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[shake]](graemlins/jpshakehead.gif)
.![[demon]](graemlins/demon.gif)
![[throwup]](graemlins/throwup.gif)
![[beer]](graemlins/beer.gif)
![[pointedstick]](graemlins/pointedstick.gif)
![[weep]](graemlins/weep.gif)
