quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
2 words for ya buddy.
Fuck You, you've proved my point again...
Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
2 words for ya buddy.
Fuck You, you've proved my point again...
That was 7 words....
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: I hope Bush can make changes for small business and tort reform to lower costs. I do believe socialized healthcare is not the answer. Competition is what this country is built on - it's as simple as that. Insurance companies need to compete for your business. These huge lawsuits drive up costs and need to be capped.
I like my health plan - I get to choose when and if I will go to the doctor. I am rewarded for not going. I get to keep my 125 plan spending account money if I don't spend it. Problem with socialized systems are that people go to the doctor for every little problem. This drives up costs and makes appointments tough to get.
Now who doesn't understand Health Insurance? Explain to me how tort reforms are going to lower the cost of health insurance? Lawsuits account for less than 1% of the overall cost of healthcare. Plus, lawsuits are against MALPRACTICE insurance companies. Therefore a doctor's malpractice insurance might go up, but not the premium on a patient's plan. Due to ERISA, a person can not bring suit against a healthcare insurance company.
Socialized medicine doesn't work!!! Kerry's plan was not government-controlled. It was group purchasing of the federal employee plan that all federal employees are currently offered. You can imagine buying an insurance plan with 1 million or more enrollees would drive down the price of the policies.
It seems that people are worried that there healthcare decisions are going to be made by the government. How do you think it works now. I submit a bill and some numbnuts with zero medical education determines if MY patient who they have never seen, examined, or even looked at my xrays or chartnotes should be authorized for care and if what I did for them was REASONABLE and NECESSARY. How the FUCK would they know!!! So, you're so worried about government controlling your healthcare. What about the profit mongering insurance companies (which can't be sued due to ERISA) deciding all your healthcare decisions for you.
Plus, people with socialized medicine don't utilize it more, because they can't. There are long waiting lists for virtually everthing. It is impossible to get in to see the doctor. By the time you get in you usually are not sick any more. The doctor I work with is Canadian, he has related how it all works to me.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
2 words for ya buddy.
Fuck You, you've proved my point again...
That was 7 words....
Ya, but the 2 were especially for asshatboy Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Why waste your breath Crack. They know it all and understand it better than anyone else already.. Imagine YOU actually thinking you know something about this... how dare you Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Kitty: You have the typical thinking that most people have; that to shrink the deficit and have a blanaced budget, you need to 1. Raise taxes or 2. Cut spending. Either way, you are cutting the supply of money in the economy, which hurts business whether you are big or small. The golden rule in economics is that to have a growing ecomonyg, you need a growing supply of money. Raising taxes will not do that and is not the most effective way to shrink the defecit. Scott is right, tax cuts do spur the economy and the reason that the middle and upper class tend to be the target is because these people are more likesly to reinvest the money rather then spend it on something useless. That is the goal of tax cuts with the government; put money back in the hands of the investors that will use save it through various methods such as government bonds, etc. (i.e. giving the money back to the government to reduce the deficit or fund whatever programs it wants all while strengthing the economy).
So why doesn't it work? It just makes perfect sense that if you (the government) need money to pay for something, you have to find the money elswhere. BALANCED BUDGET!! It works, CLINTON HAD RECORD SURPLUSES BECAUSE OF IT!!!
Maybe the government needs to stop taking handouts and live within there means and not pay for stuff unless they can pay for it.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Come on Brad you know better then that. We did have a booming economy under Clinton. However, it was headed for recession at the very tail end of his term. Notice I am not saying it was already in recession like a lot of republicans like to say. The definition of recession is three consecutive quarters of negative growth. Clinton had seen two at the end of his term (and I think one a year before that was not consecutive). Then Bush gets into office and sees the third consecutive quarter - followed by 9/11. Please don't tell me it's Bush's fault for a declining economy after 9/11. The way out was to follow the exact same path Kitty just laid out. Cut taxes to spur the economy... It worked and INCREASED tax revenue AND ECONOMIC growth.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: NO THANKS I'LL GO LIVE IN THE OUTBACK WITH MY USP 40 and a first aid kit before I deal with that shit!!![/QB]
no no... please stop..... to funny..... I would pay to see this.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
It was headed for recession because the technology bubble burst. That was not Clinton's fault. That was the dumbass investors and dot-coms thinking that everything to do with the net was a good thing.
I agree Bush came in at a difficult time, but he has had 3 years to turn around this economy and his policies aren't working. Minimal gains aren't worth cheering about.
We obviously have a difference of opinion on how best to spur an economy. And that is why I'm a democrat and your a republican.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: WOW a republican idea - Brad you are on the right track here.
Well maybe Bush should live by this Mantra. He likes to SPEND, but he has no way of paying for it.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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posted
I agree there are differences in our thinking.
So what's you plan? We have talked about tax cuts - what's the alternative? Raising taxes and spending more on government programs.....how does that spur the economy?
posted
Just a note, it takes more then three years to spur an economy enough to make a large enough difference. Think of how long it took for us to reach our economic boom, that's how long it will take again.
Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: I agree there are differences in out thinking.
So what's you plan? We have talked about tax cuts - what's the alternative? Raising taxes and spending more on government programs.....how does that spur the economy?
I have never said we should spend more on government programs. I said, if your going to pay for something you need to have the money to do it. Balance the budget. Stop running defecits.
We need to stop allowing companies to get cheap labor overseas. Give them tax credits to make jobs here. We need a better import/export ratio, we are on the losing end of this as well.
Give companies an insentive to hiring and create jobs here. Cutting taxes doesn't necessarily encourage companies to create jobs. Give me the business owner more money doesn't make me want to hire someone. Give me a tax credit for hiring someone, then maybe I will.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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I don't support our current heirarchy system. I more support an across the board 10 or 15 or 20% tax for everybody. Or a national sales tax. Pay your share.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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posted
You would rather have a tax credit over more actual money in your pocket? You sound like someone that wants a mortgage so they can take the interest deduction.........
The trade deficeit has been around for the last several decades. And unless you want to start paying 50%-100% more for products at your local Walmart it will continue for a lot of products. Incentives are great (sounds like you are almost saying tax cuts) but they would have to be pretty extreme to get the manufactors to use US labor for cheap products. Lets not even go into unions, because that's a whole other can of worms.
I am all for the balanced budget - it was easy for Clinton with all the $$$ rolling into the government.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Crack_Dealer: As far as taxes goes:
I don't support our current heirarchy system. I more support an across the board 10 or 15 or 20% tax for everybody. Or a national sales tax. Pay your share.
So you want to increase the taxes on the lower class? People that don't pay any taxes to start with? Good luck getting that one by the democrats....
I just listened to the Bush press conf. and it sounds like he will be going after a simpler tax system over the next couple years. Didn't mention any additional cuts, just a simpler system - so maybe he will do something you like.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I'm in a union, the biggest state employee's union in the country and I pay no less for my health care than the numbers I've seen thrown around here and my benefits are avg at best...
Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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So you want to increase the taxes on the lower class? People that don't pay any taxes to start with? Good luck getting that one by the democrats....
I just listened to the Bush press conf. and it sounds like he will be going after a simpler tax system over the next couple years. Didn't mention any additional cuts, just a simpler system - so maybe he will do something you like.[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with taxing the lower class, everybody pays their equal fair share. That is why I kind of like the idea of a national sales tax. Everybody buys stuff, therefore everybody is paying into the system equally. Would really make you more cost consciuos.
I hope Bush does do something about the tax code. I think the problem and / or solution is the system. And just giving a tax cut alone won't fix it.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Klaus: The trade deficeit has been around for the last several decades. And unless you want to start paying 50%-100% more for products at your local Walmart it will continue for a lot of products. Incentives are great (sounds like you are almost saying tax cuts) but they would have to be pretty extreme to get the manufactors to use US labor for cheap products.
We can't stay the status quo, we have to stop saying "well this is how it's always been done". We need to fix this problem. Big boon for business, bad for employees. If we don't have employees here in the US, they can't buy anything to spur our economy and they just sit on the doles collecting there unemployment.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Yes, but jobs are shifting from manufactoring to technology. The manufactoring jobs are going over seas - and it's taking the education system a bit to catch up and start offering classes/training in the new jobs. One of Bush's big pushes is to give incentives to go back to school and get training. If you are a laided off manufactoring sector employee maybe you should go get retrained. Change happens and our workforce needs to adapt.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I agree with this. It is unfortunate we didn't see this coming.
-------------------- "Rarely has it been so clear how much we, the ordinary people of this country, are better than our rulers. I hope that lesson is not lost on anyone, of any political persuasion." Posts: 520 | From: Shakopee, MN USA | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: NO THANKS I'LL GO LIVE IN THE OUTBACK WITH MY USP 40 and a first aid kit before I deal with that shit!!!
no no... please stop..... to funny..... I would pay to see this.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!![/QB]
The point was to be rediculous JOE. Comeon now you ask for discourse and discussion on the issues and you pull crap like this. You argue like a 12 year old girl.
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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Do you belive you have some supreme insight on wilderness just because you take a few walks around in the AK wilderness? I realize your job takes you many places but lets not get to high and mighty about your wilderness skills. I have played out in the wilderness my fair share...not just in minnesota or the US for that matter.
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Mikey: I think many people loose sight of the fact that rich people are priveledged and that's just the way it is.
Yes, all these folks are just spontaniously rich & priviledged, and they're that way because thats the way god wants it...
Heaven forbid anyone give back to the society that allowed them to become so "privilidged"....
This country is all about greed and consumption and the next pop culture fad...
edit: I forgot gross apathy, couch potato ignorance, and dilusional self importance....
Wash your eyes clean of the liberal goo hazing them to an opaque white. The "priveledged" are giving back to society. Call me crazy but don't the rich run companys? Oh yea they do. So its not like they are creating jobs with benefits and comprable wages. The middle class is the greed and lust full class. Give the middle class a tax cut and you will see spiners on brand new escilades.(I guess thats considered a pop culture fad)
Health care reforme is needed, but in a drastic measure. Medicare and Medicaid have fucked your premiums. I belive that Medicare pays something like 2/3's or less of the value, it is not even a sliding fee system. For example: John Doe needs to take an ambulance to the hospital for a chief complaint of chest pain.
Patiant Doe recives ALS care from your local ambulance provider and is transported 10 miles to the closest appropriate medical facility. If John Doe pays cash it is roughly $1000. Not bad if his ticker is shot. While Medicare will pay a little under $600. for the exact same service. So in essance Medicare can be used as a free and discounted taxi downtown to the savy savers who recive it. Insurace companys can negotiate the fees they pay, but not medicare, It is a fixed rate. If John Doe was blessed with a nice insurance policy then he might get off with a nice $120 out of pocket expense.
How do hospitals and clinics recoup these hard defined losses due to the inadaquate prices of medicare? They charge insurers more...... who pass the cost onto the consumer. That nice taxi/ambulance ride John Doe took downtown could cost $1200 next time.
It is the "handout" system that is fucked. Not the insurance companys. They need to cover the cost of the underpaying fedral program.
I personally have a catastrophic policy with dental. I have some absured $250 out of pocket per visit with a 10 or 15k annual cap. All for $110 a month. I dont use it, I just have it in case I saw off my leg or staple my penis to a desk.
I also carried a "married(man and wife)" policy when I was working independantly, it was with BCBS and cost me $440 a month with a $20 copay. It was a little steep but, I made roughly 2k biweekly and payed $220 to BCBS.
So please tell me again why the "priveledged" need to pay more to this system? I COBRA'd my plan when I was unemployeed 5x's durring the end of the Clinton era. I never put my hand out. I saved money and diped into my savings to pay the bills.
The solution is to disolve the Medicare and Medicaid plague that is the bane of the insurance industry.
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: The point was to be rediculous JOE. Comeon now you ask for discourse and discussion on the issues and you pull crap like this.
I thought I made it clear I was done trying to add legitimate perspectives....I'm just gonna be the dick that you've been to me for 4yrs..... man you are dense.... Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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Do you belive you have some supreme insight on wilderness just because you take a few walks around in the AK wilderness? I realize your job takes you many places but lets not get to high and mighty about your wilderness skills. I have played out in the wilderness my fair share...not just in minnesota or the US for that matter.
This makes it evidently clear that you have delusions of grandure and don't give ANYONE the respect they deserve, particularly when you have NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK YOUR TALKING ABOUT REGARDING WHAT I HAVE AND HAVEN'T DONE IN MY LIFE!!!!
Do you belive you have some supreme insight on wilderness just because you take a few walks around in the AK wilderness? I realize your job takes you many places but lets not get to high and mighty about your wilderness skills. I have played out in the wilderness my fair share...not just in minnesota or the US for that matter.
This makes it evidently clear that you have delusions of grandure and don't give ANYONE the respect they deserve, particularly when you have NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK YOUR TALKING ABOUT REGARDING WHAT I HAVE AND HAVEN'T DONE IN MY LIFE!!!!
Joe you need to take a look in the mirror and realize you are most guilty of what you just claimed there. I didn't say anything about you other than you are in no position to judge the ammount of wilderness experience I have because YOU DO NOT KNOW ME!!
Your hostile overly emotional bullshit is again getting out of hand. Either we call it a truce or this is gonna get realy stupid. (not that it hasn't already).
You have no right to assume anything about me and I have no right to assume anything about you. I have been trying to deal with you lightly (mainly cause I don't give a fuck what you say) So take your obvoulsy serious personal attacks and keep them because they do your credibility no good.
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: The point was to be rediculous JOE. Comeon now you ask for discourse and discussion on the issues and you pull crap like this.
I thought I made it clear I was done trying to add legitimate perspectives....I'm just gonna be the dick that you've been to me for 4yrs..... man you are dense....
Joe just dial back, If you feel hurt by how I have been to you for the last four years. I am sorry. I never intended to hurt your feelings. I didn't think throwing BS around on a web site would cause anyon any angst. This is all just meaningless bullshit. On a scale from 1-10 the shit that goes on on any forum at most matters about at about a 2 level. Give me a break this is all been blown way out of porportion.
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Why? Why did bush realy get re-elected? Because the MAJORITY (60 million who voted) in this country were tired of the overly emotional, liberial, doomsayer, craizies crying and whining for 4 years straight. Ya know what it was? Reasonable, type B personalities give a big FUCK YOU to all the whining, melodramatic, woundup, type-A assholess that won't shut up about bush being demon seed endbringer and losing all adult decency and courtosy in the process!!
posted
Whatever osmosis boy... Some day you may actually figure that one out....
But, this is my problem Chad, illustrated very well here in your post. This is how I've observed you act towards most people here:
1). Dismiss, belittle, and scoff at anyone elses experience, perspective, life, education, opinion... etc... basically trying to make whatever "they" said as irrelivent....
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Joe,
Do you belive you have some supreme insight on wilderness just because you take a few walks around in the AK wilderness?
Ya Chad... a few walks you fucking asshat...
2) Make grandous statements about how you in your unerring world view know at least if not more than anyone on any given subject...
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: I have played out in the wilderness my fair share...not just in minnesota or the US for that matter.
and from a previous discussion.... (don't test my memory)
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: [QB] I like the outdoors as much as you
I highly doubt this....
I've never professed to be a expert or authority on anything (unlike some who may not profess it, but certainly do act like it.... ). However; I would think it's a assumption among "friends" that the length, depth, and intesity of someones life experiences would add just a ounce of credince to that persons perspective when they talk about subjects they deal with daily....
I've never challenged you on your understanding of Engineering, just like I don't challenge Klaus on his understanding of Accounting, or Crack his Med knowledge..... I'd like to see you say the same with a honest face, and I'll give you a littany of posts where your just blatantly a asshole and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because "you just know better"
Yep, I'm intentionally being a total prick, as it seems to be the language you speak the best towards me, I thought I'd return the favor.... Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Joe just dial back, If you feel hurt by how I have been to you for the last four years. I am sorry. I never intended to hurt your feelings. I didn't think throwing BS around on a web site would cause anyon any angst. This is all just meaningless bullshit. On a scale from 1-10 the shit that goes on on any forum at most matters about at about a 2 level. Give me a break this is all been blown way out of porportion.
Whatever dude, I don't really give two shits what your opinion is on a subject anymore. I don't take this home with me. I'm just speaking my fucking mind... is there a problem with that, I call a spade a spade...... Play the drama queen now... "oh, I had no idea I was being a dick all this time.... I didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings..." Paleese Throwing BS around in a fun discussion is one thing... Being a blatant shithead to people in legit serious discussions is another....
I participate on other forums, in more heated contensious discussion, and I've rarely seen anyone as insulting as your method of "discussion" as I outlined below.... So it aint just me guy...
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Whatever osmosis boy...
No, no, no - that's Diffusion Joe. Didn't we go over that one before?
I guess as far as all the doom-saying goes with Bush - some of us didn't agree with Clinton and yet survived 8 years of him no worse for wear. I'm sure we'll come out on the other end of 8 years with Bush OK as well. I'm not into blaming the president for things he really doesn't have that much control over and calling him and his voters "dumb" does nothing but drive a wedge further between people.
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Whatever osmosis boy...
No, no, no - that's Diffusion Joe. Didn't we go over that one before?
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING give that boy a prize....
And for the third time, I'm not going to contribute anything legit or serious anymore hense the shot at all the mouthbreathing jesus freaks you guys are letting take over the country...
Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
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Wash your eyes clean of the liberal goo hazing them to an opaque white. The "priveledged" are giving back to society. Call me crazy but don't the rich run companys? Oh yea they do. So its not like they are creating jobs with benefits and comprable wages. The middle class is the greed and lust full class. Give the middle class a tax cut and you will see spiners on brand new escilades.(I guess thats considered a pop culture fad)
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