[ 11-03-2004, 08:33: Message edited by: Klaus ]
Posted by Mikey (Member # 42) on :
I think I remember on the last election that there was a Minnesota site where somewhat real-time results were posted. Does anyone know where that is?
Posted by Mikey (Member # 42) on :
[ 11-02-2004, 16:52: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Zogby has updated based on their exit poll data.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Looks like Kerry has it wrapped up. Hopefully, they can call the election by... what 10pm?
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Shiet... Despite the exit data, if they have it wrapped up by the 11th I'll be pleasantly surprised. I think they said Ohio doesn't even have to report their vote-count until then.
But I'm sure most people would be very relieved (on both sides) to have some idea by tomorrow that at the least we're not gonna have a repeat of 2000....
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
It is going to be a worse legal mess than 2000. Not something I want, but with both sides having thousands of lawyers at the ready it is bound to be a total cluster fuck. Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: It is going to be a worse legal mess than 2000.
Only if its truely close. Watch what happens with Ohio, that will be this years Florida if it happens.
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
Or Maine...
Isn't one county the difference between 3 electoral votes?
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
I think it is bound to be as close or closer than 2000.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Joe's right Ohio is the key - whoever wins that will probably win the election.
I just want a clear winner - lets not get the laywers involved this time Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
I have also been hearing and reading about ohio but florida has fixed near nothing in 5 years from what it sounds like. I think everyone hopes that it will not be close.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
The "too close to call" state's.
Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia (significant electoral votes, once these are decided it'll be over)
and Colorado & Nevada (but they have significantly less Electoral votes)....
I'm hearing more problems associated with unprecidented voter turnout. Having to get more ballots to vote locations, etc.... May be a record year for turnout.
I had a line of a half hour, not a biggie, but the last two votes I've done here I've walked right in with practically nobody there...
[ 11-02-2004, 18:27: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Aww, wish I'd found my sig for the day earlier.. Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
As I was saying a few weeks ago and have heard more times since then...
There is more than just a posibility that Bush could win the popular vote but lose the election. Winning florida and losing ohio could definetly make that happen.
The more I watch tonight the more I think that that might actually happen.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I think I heard Pat Buchanan (sp?) the other day talk about the very very rare chance of a 270 270 tie.. Prez is voted on by the Senate (Rep), and the VP by the House (he added the "possibility" of a Dem takeover via this election) and they elect John Edwards He was openly speculating and just brought it up as a interesting point.
If anything really needs to be changed its the election system. Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Looks like I was right and the exit polls were wrong just like in the 2000 election.... Ohio is the state to watch.
Fox just projected Bush to win Ohio......3 elect. votes to go..... Alaska may be the difference.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I noticed Fox and ABC are predicting earlier than the others. Its close, much more close than that exit pole (why is it sooo off? ). I doubt Alaska will be the key, if Bush Takes Ohio, Kerry pretty much has to take all the rest. That would put Bush at 266 I think.
Regardless of who wins, voter turnout is outstanding, nice change... so Yeah! Americans! Voting is just something so unique and important to this country..
[ 11-03-2004, 00:07: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Ohio. Called. Bush. Mass Litigation is already underway. No auto recount. Litigation a guarantee.
AK called for bush....
Iowa within 100 votes with 85% reporting...according to fox
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Fox has bush at 269 and has for about 1/2 an hour.
MN is closer than it has been all night and precincts are lagging in reportin compared to WI and IA.
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Fox just said Daschle is losing by almost 70k votes...
I hate that guy... Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Ya, to clarify, AK will go for Bush, looks like hawaii may be Kerry.
MN,IW & NV are getting closer as the night goes on.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Fox just said Daschle is losing by almost 70k votes...
This was a race I hand't caught till the last few days.
I don't really understand the "drastic" turnaround of a relatively long term incumbant in this particular case... (all rehtoric aside ;-) I'm not a fan of him at all as well) But even you guys prolly don't hear much about S.D. politics....
[ 11-03-2004, 00:25: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
I think dashle lost touch with south dakota. Got tainted by liberal national politics. Just my guess. Having visited SD a number of times. People there seem very different from a typical metro area minnisotan. Even in the "major cities" there....
Just my speculation on their thought process...
[ 11-03-2004, 00:28: Message edited by: Chadwick ]
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Dashle has been on borrowed time for the last six years. I am surprised he stayed around for as long as he did - being in a big republican state...
Ohio is the big story - the Dems are contesting it already.
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
FOX has for some reason had Hawaii called for Kerry most of the night for some reason but they are the only ones. I doubt bush would win down there but it is just interesting to call it so early. I think poles closed there like an hour ago or something.... Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Well this circus isn't going anywhere for a while. I'm going to bed
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
I hung in there until a little after 2:30. After it became apparent that Kerry would not be conceding I went to bed.
My favorite headline this morning "Florida didn't screw it up!"
I am glad to see that there is (or will be) a clear winner this time. Bush got over 50% of the popular vote - the last time this happened was 1988 (Bush SR.). He also got more votes then Regan, although that's probably a function of the population increasing.
The exit polling company should be fired. In fact the major networks should get a refund from these ass-clowns. When Drudge posted the early results with Kerry ahead in every battleground state around noon - all the major networks were setting up for a Kerry landslide. The market tanked on the news and the Bush camp was in crisis mode. Then I heard Drudge on Hannity's radio show running down the same numbers from 2000 - which had Gore ahead in exit polls 5pts in Florida/3pts in Ohio. After that I was optimistic it would be a race......
Best coverage in my opinion - Foxnews (first to call the exit polls crap) and MSNBC (I thought Chris Matthews was fair). Worst - CNN (refused to call Ohio even though it's statistically impossible to win for Kerry)
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
Well, that was fun.
How long until everyone else agrees that Bush won this thing?
11 days?
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: The exit polling company should be fired. In fact the major networks should get a refund from these ass-clowns. When Drudge posted the early results with Kerry ahead in every battleground state around noon - all the major networks were setting up for a Kerry landslide. The market tanked on the news and the Bush camp was in crisis mode.
Agreed.
They were lighting up Zogby on my drive home. I think they quote was "shameless".
Ah well, another 4 years of Bush's antics...maybe we'll go to war with Libya and Iran. Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
I think Syria is the first stop....
Kerry is in a tough situation today for sure. Late afternoon yesterday when it appeared if the exit polls were correct he would win. He came out and gave a quick speech pretty much saying he hoped the loser would be gracious etc. Now of course he was talking about Bush - but it turns out he's the one that needs to be gracious. If he challanges in Ohio where there is little hope of overcoming the 130,000 vote gap he won't look very gracious......
Either Bush called Kerry to urge him to concede or Kerry just called Bush to concede....
Posted by Hauserdaddy (Member # 50) on :
Our voting took place in a little house on the prairie schoolhouse (city hall). I shit you not that we got our piece of paper with the candidates and our pencil and got to go behind the sheets to vote. I know I live in BFE now... Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hauserdaddy: Our voting took place in a little house on the prairie schoolhouse (city hall). I shit you not that we got our piece of paper with the candidates and our pencil and got to go behind the sheets to vote. I know I live in BFE now...
Our polling place in Shakopee was the same! Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
Statement from John Zogby on 2004 Presidential Election Results:
“We feel strongly that our pre-election polls were accurate on virtually every state. Our predictions on many of the key battleground states like Ohio and Florida were within the margin of error. I thought we captured a trend, but apparently that result didn’t materialize.
“We always saw a close race, and a close race is what we’ve got. I’ve called this the Armageddon Election for some time—a closely-divided electorate with high partisan intensity on each side."
I think that'll be the last time this site is considered a credible source...
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Ya, it did seem over the top from the start, you would think after doing the same thing in 2000 as Klaus pointed out they would fix their "system" Mabey its just the nature of the beast?
You guys made it later than I did. 1am your time. I think 2 of the networks had called Ohio at that point... NBC wasn't gonna call shit, I just don't think Brokaw would stick his neck out again...
I don't see a 4 million people difference as some landslide tho (difference in popular vote).... The divisivness will continue and worsen now.. Bush doesn't have to worry about re-election now... think he'll rein in his "agenda"?? Welcome to the United Corp States of America (pat. pend.)...
If anything I think these last two elections clearly indicate a need to revamp the election process... At least make it uniform from state to state, make the electoral votes a little more representative of the Popular vote (Did Colorado pass that initiative?)...
For Posterity
[ 11-03-2004, 11:56: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Ender (Member # 55) on :
Bottom line: The Democrats screwed themselves in the ass by picking an incompetent candidate. Otherwise, this election wouldnt have even been close.
One thing to look forward to: stability. If Kerry was elected, the Democrats would spend a year just shuffling shit around in the white house to try to make sure Kerry would be re-elected 4 years later.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I weep for the future. Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
I have to admit how impressed I was with the ability for the Dem's to motivate so many people to vote for them.
Everyone knows how weak Kerry was, and how obvious it was that his campaign was basically the "What did Bush say? I stand for the OPPOSITE!" (yaaayyy...)
But the fact that they almost won is...well it's quite a statement to the strength of old W...
I forsee...more WAR!
Anyway, it's over, it's done, and I sincerely hope that Guliani runs in 08', or we'll have another Clinton debacle on our hands...
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
I voted in the back room of a firehouse...
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
Mine was a small church...across the street from my house. Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I weep for the future.
I LOVE PUPPIES!
[ 11-03-2004, 12:15: Message edited by: BoondockSaint ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I weep for the future.
I LOVE PUPPIES!
Asswipe
[ 11-03-2004, 12:58: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Ender (Member # 55) on :
quote:Anyway, it's over, it's done, and I sincerely hope that Guliani runs in 08', or we'll have another Clinton debacle on our hands...
He would be stupid not to. Guliani would win by a landslide over any other dumbass fair-whether hippie bastard the Democrats dig up next time.
I would vote for him any day.
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ender: ...any other dumbass fair-whether hippie bastard the Democrats dig up next time.
Um...I don't think they have to dig much.
Isn't Hillary slated for '08?
(Chad & Joe, I'm just messing with you)
[ 11-03-2004, 12:25: Message edited by: BoondockSaint ]
Posted by Trany (Member # 31) on :
W! Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Boon. Even if you are kidding. Editing people's post other than your own is not a road you want to go down....it's not even funny...think next time...
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Boon. Even if you are kidding. Editing people's post other than your own is not a road you want to go down....it's not even funny...think next time...
Yeah, yeah.
I just like how this hasn't resorted to name calling yet.
Go ahead if you want to Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Klaus,
How did Eric end up with moderator privlidges on almsot all the topics?
Is he donating money to the website or something?
Moderators on other forums are frustrating enough. I don't need a friend doing my thinking for me also... Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Colorado did not vote for the spliting of Electoral votes.
You can make a case that in 2000 it didn't jive (electoral vs popular) but this year I don't think you can. Bush got 51% of the vote. Clinton never got over 50%. There is a reason for the electoral college and I think it works pretty well.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
It was a joke.
Eric likes to get emails of each post because his internet usage is tracked at work. The only way to do this is to make him a moderator of each forum.
He won't do it again...... (right Eric )
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
[ 11-03-2004, 12:45: Message edited by: Chadwick ]
Posted by Trany (Member # 31) on :
quote:Originally posted by BoondockSaint:
quote:Originally posted by Ender: ...any other dumbass fair-whether hippie bastard the Democrats dig up next time.
There now it's funny.
I am amazed at the lack of support for Nader and other canidates. The bleeding hearts found a common ground, with the Kerry, and his extreemism.
And Florida should loose all but three of its electoral votes, They almost fucked up again. You had 4 years to get it right, give em to Montana or Alaska.
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: He won't do it again...... (right Eric )
Yeah, yeah. Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by BoondockSaint:
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: He won't do it again...... (right Eric )
Yeah, yeah.
No offense Eric I just wanted to throw you some bonus spite. Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by BoondockSaint:
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: He won't do it again...... (right Eric )
Yeah, yeah.
No offense Eric I just wanted to throw you some bonus spite.
None taken, I figured that's what it was.
You do love puppies, though. Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I weep for the future.
I LOVE PUPPIES!
Asswipe
Soooooo.....you don't like puppies?
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
[ 11-03-2004, 14:52: Message edited by: flamingoamyjo ]
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by flamingoamyjo:
Nice sig! Posted by Mikey (Member # 42) on :
A Female President
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
According to Dick Morris' book "Re-writing History" - Bush winning is the first step in her 2008 plan. Next is for her to continue to re-make her image. If you haven't noticed she has been toned down and very civil over the last two years. Then she will launch her attacks at the Republicans about 2 years from the next elections. So far everything is going according to plan........
Posted by Trany (Member # 31) on :
Wow, that will keep the GOP untill 2012 atleast.
Get Oprah, Lieberman, or Michale Moore's Fat ass(his overinflated ego will be his fat ass's runningmate) or just try to find a Jew,Chick,fill in the blank with any disfunction to run, and draw all the Leftwing freaks out of their fragile worlds. Then we can sit down and decide how to speend billions of dollars on worthless handouts. I want more racial equality and bleeding bloody cunt day to celebrate minorities and menstral bleeding. Then we will break up all of the large companys because your fucking head shop can't sell enugh bongs, for you to super size you fries when you have smoked one to many bowls of the kindest nuggs.
Then you can get in your ethanol powered Kia and drive, 40MPH untill you get stuck in trafic due to the overwhelming migration of cows that have been freed from their cruel pens. But you can't kill a fucking cow, nope its a strict diet of tofu and organic veggies.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
.... and the "Unification" begins.....
real suprised at the divided electorate with crap like this out there.... Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
This is a quote I have heard a number of times. One encouraging thing about this election is that it is tending towards the other dirrection....
End of Culture How does a culture end? Here's one answer, rooted in all the history of all the world's known past cultures. Short and Sweet: We're on our way out as a culture. At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior. "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship." "The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From Bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage." Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent Presidential election: Counties won: Gore = 677 Bush = 2434 Population of counties won by: Gore=127 million Bush=143 million Square miles of land won by: Gore=580,134 Bush=2,427,039 States won by: Gore=19 Bush=29 Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore=13.2 Bush=2.1 Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare..." Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "apathy" and "complacency" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
That Is why I belive it is social posion to have dems in power. I ended up voting for bush mainly because of Ideas like this. Bush may not be the best in reducing government but he is leages better than any democrat.
[ 11-03-2004, 16:40: Message edited by: Chadwick ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Ya, and running up the deficit in 4 yrs like he has, and giving tax cuts during a war, isn't at all "fiscally loose" what the fuck ever....
I agree, I saw that last christmas, we're around the apathy stage, but don't see how we're at all protecting ourselves from this cycle, or how this vote does... (well it makes sense if you believe the dogma/rhetoric of the two parties, which is nothing more than a bunch of nebulous mudslinging) Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Once again the spin master picks two words and uses them in his own sentence.
Joe why don't you explain to me how Kerry would have been any kind of a solution to all this while moving us away from the kind of social demise outlined below.
Do you actually think that democrat policy in its current form will end up in any other end but society colapsing under it's own overinflated weight due to the ever increasing ranks of leaches and takers in this country.
I love how you try to spin it to make it seam like bush made tax cuts durring the war. NICE TRY.
Just exactly what would you do to avoid a total economic downturn while rasing taxes durring a war.
Kerry would not have "fixed" anything only made it all worse. Kerry proposed no solutions to any of the problems facing america. THAT IS WHY HE LOST. If a democratic canidate would have ran on balancing the budget by reducing government And proposed feasable solutions to all this while still maintainging our economy I would have voted for them in a heart beat.
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Any economist worth anything will tell you that some budget deficit is needed to improve a slow economy.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
As I said before , I was firing Bush!!! not on rhetoric, not on Dogma, but on the basis of the actions of Him and His Administration. Hmmmm...I remember some old saying about "Actions not Words? From the Environment to Foreign Policy, he is not the person he claimed to be in the 2000 campain. I gave him 4 yrs, (I didn't vote against him) and he failed me in every way. He had the opportunity to be the uniter he claimed to be oh well, guess I won't make that mistake again with the GOP or NeoCons...
I didn't let Gore define Bush in 2000 just like I didn't let Bush define Kerry in 2004.
Kerry is/was not hog-tied to the Democratic Platform (since when is ANY individual TIED to their party platform????)..... And he actually seemed capable of critical thinking unlike the incumbant Monkey-In-Chief... So ya, if a monkey in a expensive suit deserved the benefit of doubt 4 yrs ago, I had no problem giving a career senator the same benefit (I'm sure you'll somehow belittle/disdain his role as a senator, or "spin" using GOP talking points about what he did and didn't do there, but none of that realisitcally captures the role of a senator in this country... )
Sorry, but I think its ridiculous to think that with Kerry as prez the whole country would of just fallen to pieces, particularly given the outcome of the Senate/House races now THATS! being a drama queen .
So, whatever, I know nothing about anything according to you, so why do you bother asking?
[ 11-03-2004, 17:51: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
So if Bush is a monkey? What does that make Kerry? Bush has a higher IQ then Kerry.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Since its became evident that my arguably moderate viewpoint continues to be relagated and generalize into me somehow being a "uber" liberal, I might as well play the role, and have fun with it... I'll prolly be censored, because you cant say asswhipe, but you can have henious racist sexist crap everyother day from some friggin cook
So heres the PinkoCommieJomama you always claimed I was....
ATTN: 51% of voters RE: you being gormless, easily duped intellectual dungheaps
Just wanted to establish that whatever fucked-up shit comes down on all of our heads over the next four years...it's all your fault.
I am no longer blaming Bush or Cheney or Karl Rove or anybody else in the NeoCon coven. You can't blame them for being evil, hateful warmongering fuckshits any more than you can blame a gun for shooting bullets. But YOU ASSHOLES let them get away with it for four more years.
A tidal wave of blood coming down on us all from the next terrorist disaster? YOUR FAULT.
Military draft stealing away the lives of an entire generation of young Americans (and then some)? YOUR FAULT.
Perpetual wars in the Middle East making Orwellian nightmares seem like tinkertoys in the sandbox? YOUR FAULT.
A ruined economy and ecology, a Constitution left in tatters, a tyranny of wealthy white "Christians" who are anything but? YOUR FAULT.
The rest of the world abandoning us when we'll need it most (and don't say it won't happen)? YOUR FAULT.
Future decades upon future decades spent living down Bush's legacy and repairing the damage to the country and the world? YOUR FAULT.
Making this planet a less prosperous and peaceful place in which to raise my future child? YOUR FUCKING FAULT, YOU FUCKING FUCKING CUNTING FUCKS.
I hope you're quite pleased. I hope you enjoy the tax cuts and the military dick-waving and the surge of pride you must feel when Bush stands in front of a flag he has never for a moment of his life defended. I wish you all a free copy of "My Pet Goat" and a frosty flagon of the blood if Iraqui innocents. Drink fast, it gets warm so quickly.
Just remember, when you and I are both up against the wall, the last thing you'll see before we're both shot in the head is my finger raised in accusation against you. And it won't be my index finger.
Drop me if you want. Hate me if you want. I don't give a shit. Fuck all 'yall. Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Bush has a higher IQ then Kerry.
Pfffftt
edit: Oh, that was a joke right... srry forgot to laugh
[ 11-03-2004, 18:02: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
So proud to be part of this electorate
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
What bearing does that have on anything?? What's your IQ?? How does anyone even know what Bush and Kerry's IQs are? And Bush is STILL a born-again-Christian monkey with a former cocaine addiction.
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
SOooooo, Kerry wants to raise taxes, oh my. Bush wants to ban gay marriage, oh my. Bush wants to stop women from having abortions, oh my. Kerry wants to give us affordable health care, oh my.
A monkey licking his own balls could be a better president than Bush. Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
From my sources I have gotten a transcript of the actual call Kerry made to Bush.....
Bush: The is the Prez, what can I do you for?
Kerry: Mr. President, this is Senator Ker-
Bush: Hang on a second... (toilet flush noise from backround) Bush: Sorry about that, I just love that sound, who's this again?
Kerry: This is Senator Kerry Mr. President, I'm called to congratulate you on a good compaign and to inform you that I concede.
Bush: You didn't win yet!
Kerry: No Mr. President, concede means that I admit that you won. Congratulations.
Bush: Oh, thanks, and I'd want you to know that you lead a great campaign you were definitely a admirable worth opponent. Also I'd like to let you know that losersayswhat.
Kerry: What was that Mr. President? Bush: losersayswhat.
Kerry: One more time sir, I didn't catch that. Bush: losersaysWHAT
Kerry: What?
Bush: Hah! Gotcha! You just admitting to being a loser and that means I win the election!
Kerry: That's what I called to tell you Mr. President, I said that I conce-
Bush: Flipflopper! NOW you say that after I made you admit it!
Kerry: This really isn't nessessary Mr Pres-
Bush: Hang on a second. (toilet flush noise from backround)
Bush: This is the Prez what can I do you for?
Kerry: This is still Senator Kerry sir.
Bush: What can I do for you SENATOR Kerry, who isn't going to be the president.
Kerry: I don't know, I guess I'd like to hear you say that I lead a tough campaign and that you hope I'm proud of the effort I put in and that I should be."
Bush: You lead a tough campaign? Yeah you did. Anything you try to do that I don't like is going to be tough! I'm the President of the United States! I gived you a good ol' Texas Ass woopin ya' pinko! And I do hope you're proud of the effort you put in! You sould be considering it's the first thing you did that required any effort besides living with that she bitch millionare. What kind of idiot would marry a woman like that? Can I get a hell yeah?! (Silence)
Kerry: I...um.....Congratulations Mr. President. (Hangs up)
Bush: This land is your land, this land is my land! You're a liberal weenier, I'm a great crusa-a-der, this land only belongs to meeeeeee! WOOOHOOO! (Hangs up)
[ 11-03-2004, 18:31: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Amy and Joe - Your posts just show the type of BS we have been hearing for the last year. The American people didn't buy it but I guess you did. Personal attacks on the President of the USA that graduated from Yale etc. Stick to the issues.
And Amy I seriously think as a small business owner you will be better served by Bush policies. Maybe you don't make much money at the moment and therefore don't need the tax deductions that will now be made permanent, but some day soon you might. I hope that Bush follows through with his plan to allow small businesses to join together to get cheaper healthcare. Did you know that under Clinton small business owners (Schedule C) were not able to deduct healthcare premiums on there tax returns. Bush has made 100% of premiums deductible on your business schedule C. That means you are getting close to a 30% discount on healthcare coverage.
Tax cuts do work Joe - they help stimulate the economy. They put more money in small business owners pockets. Something like 3 of 4 new jobs are created by small business. If they have extra income, they are more able to hire more workers. I could go into S corps etc.... maybe some other time.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Bush has a higher IQ then Kerry.
Pfffftt
edit: Oh, that was a joke right... srry forgot to laugh
I don't believe this 100% just it's fun....
Mr. Kerry's SAT score is not known, but now Mr. Sailer has done a comparison of the intelligence tests in the candidates' military records. They are not formal I.Q. tests, but Mr. Sailer says they are similar enough to make reasonable extrapolations.
Mr. Bush's score on the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test at age 22 again suggests that his I.Q was the mid-120's, putting Mr. Bush in about the 95th percentile of the population, according to Mr. Sailer. Mr. Kerry's I.Q. was about 120, in the 91st percentile, according to Mr. Sailer's extrapolation of his score at age 22 on the Navy Officer Qualification Test.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Amy and Joe - Your posts just show the type of BS we have been hearing for the last year. The American people didn't buy it but I guess you did. Personal attacks on the President of the USA that graduated from Yale etc. Stick to the issues.
To say that the personal attacks were one sided is just nonsense, and why I don't buy into any of it.... (and you guys made all types of personal attacks on Kerry and his wife? Bush is off limits, but any challenger isn't??? Bullshit hypocracy....)
Ya, a C student at Yale, who instead of embracing the opportunity of a privlidged education focused on being the President of the biggest Party Frat at Yale...
and please spare me "the American People have spoken" mandate bullshit.... 4 mil vote difference out of approx 250 mil people in the country is 1.6% of the population made the difference.... (or out of approx 115mil voters, 4 mil voter diff = 3.4%) hardly a "mandate" I would of never claimed that a Kerry Victory of any margin was any type of Mandate by the American Public.... its just nonsense....
[ 11-03-2004, 19:16: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Seems from this map that Kerry supporters lived around large bodies of water......
[ 11-03-2004, 19:09: Message edited by: Klaus ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Seems from this map that Kerry supporters lived around large bodies of water...... [/QB]
Because those who voted for Bush are soulless, bloodless, mindless, evil zombies who only need to kill abortion doctors, gays, and environmentalist for sustanance...
[ 11-03-2004, 19:14: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
you're correct, I do buy into the social issues. I am not in the top 2% income bracket that a tax cut helps. And those of you who make around $50K don't really benefit from it either. Oh, that $200 you got back goes really far! I guess it bought you a paintball gun
What's really annoying is the sole reason Bush won is the gay marriage issue. He got all the religious people out to vote because if Kerry got in those damn gays could marry. (and the Irony of it is Cheney's daughter!) And Bush can't even ban them, he can only try to push it thru. And you know this is true, this is why the undecided people voted for Bush. Who the fuck cares if gays marry?? WHo does it hurt? Where is the seperation of church and state???
Oh, and now I can write off all of my health premiums, oooo. While i'm not complaining because it IS a good thing, I still can't afford my premiums. The majority of the uninsured are self-employed. What does that say??? I am so sick of people bitching about how much they pay for health care thru their employer (usually $100 a month for health, dental and vision, and usually have a $20 co-pay no ded.). I pay $110 a month and Brad pays $160 for a high ded. and no co-pay, and 80/20 afterwards. I can write off the premium, but what if I actually get sick or have to have surgery??? (rub the bunions for me please Scott, they are really getting sore right now! ) What else has Bush done for SBOs?? Or SOBs for that matter??
[ 11-03-2004, 19:29: Message edited by: flamingoamyjo ]
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Your social issue concerns are valid but I doubt they are in any jeopardy.
The top 2% line you said a couple times is just wrong. It's one way of looking at the aggregate dollars saved by tax payers under the Bush plan. But our tax system is based on tax brackets and of course if you don't pay any taxes you won't get a "tax cut". Here is a before and after the Bush tax cuts:
As you can see everyone benefited from the tax cut. I received a check for almost $600 (this was for a little over 6 months because the cuts were retro-active to the beginning of the year 2 years ago). On average someone making $30,000 a year saves close to $900 a year from the new rates. AND HERE IS THE KICKER>>>>>The government actually collected MORE tax revenue after the cuts. Why? because small businesses keep more money and are encouraged to expand and make more money (therefore more tax revenue). 39.6% is pretty high don't you think? Plus state and social security tax doesn’t leave much incentive to make another dollar of income for a small business owner.
I have a similar plan to Brad's healthcare from my work. 80/20 up to a cap of $700 a year. I pay nothing out of my check (my employer pays my $110 a month). For the $700 I have at risk - I have a medical savings account (125 plan) though my employer. This is tax free money to be spent on medical "stuff" (co-pays, contacts, glasses, prescriptions, etc). $110 a month is pretty cheap and since you can deduct it it's really only costing you about $80 a month.
Posted by Ender (Member # 55) on :
I pay $100 a month for a healthcare plan that doesnt include dental or vision, and has a $1,000 deductable with a $1800 out of poket maximum. No co-pay, so you have to pay all health bills under $1000 out of your own poket.
Of course, this is an individual plan not through a company. But still....
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: I pay nothing out of my check (my employer pays my $110 a month). For the $700 I have at risk - I have a medical savings account (125 plan) though my employer. .
Exactly. I pay $1320 a year in premiums, I have to pay this out of pocket even though I can write it all off at the end of the year - I'm sure you understand cash flow, this makes cash flow tough when I also pay biz insurance, liability insurance, disability insurance, life insurance, and auto insurance and homeowners insurance. Considering I am in 15% tax bracket, my "fully deductible insurance" still costs ME $93.50 a month. My employer isn't paying anything
Now, I also have to pay my $1000 deductible and the $2500 out of pocket if I have a surgery etc. PLUS I have a seperate $500 ded. for prescriptions. Suddenly I have to pay $5320 a year for medical, which I can ONLY write off the premiums. On top of this, I don't even have access to a flex spending account to put up to $3000 in to save up for some of my expenses, including contacts etc.
I used to work in HR, I know the back side of insurance from a large biz stand point and it isn't any better. Brad deals with insurance on a daily basis as a Doctor. I think we fully understand insurance.
Kerry proposed a program to give everyone the same affordable options that federal employees receive. It wasn't to be government controlled as Bush made it out to be. Insurance companies are the ones controlling it right now.
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
That's exactly my point Luke. Those of us who aren't able to get insurance thru our employers get totally screwed.
[ 11-03-2004, 21:06: Message edited by: flamingoamyjo ]
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
All the expenses you are describing are fully deductable. You are understating your tax liability also. You as a small business owner are responible for the following taxes:
Federal - assume 15% Social Security 7.65% Self employment tax 7.65% (employer match) State 5%
Total 35%
Once you hit the 25% bracket you are almost pushing 50% tax......Those deductions are worth a lot to you.
Kerry's healthcare plan had a big problem....how were we going to pay for it???
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Kerry's healthcare plan had a big problem....how were we going to pay for it???
RAISE TAXES! Roll back Bush's tax cuts on the top 2% and that would pay for it!
Plus I think as an accountant you would understand that the more people on a plan, the lower the rates are. Just like as an employer if I had over 10 employees, I could get group insurance WAY cheaper with better benefits! The majority of small biz's DONT have 10 employees or more! Bush keeps talking about small bizs banning together for group rates, but he has never done this, all talk!
Brad has to play online poker to pay for his health care premiums Posted by Trany (Member # 31) on :
The problem is easy to solve. Financial controll and responsability. Have little to no high intrest debt and live within your means. If that doesnt work get another job, or sell crack. The DFL's response is handouts, so let us use this tried and true method. It is bull shit!
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Trany is actually pretty much right........
Ok, Amy I see that I am not getting through to you at all...... I just showed the changes under the Bush tax reform and you ignore the example and start with the top 2% bullshit.....
You might consider moving to Canada to take advantage of their medical coverage... maybe you can get your bunyons fixed in about 2010. Oh and pay 30% sales tax on everything you purchase. Goodluck
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Sorry, but I think its ridiculous to think that with Kerry as prez the whole country would of just fallen to pieces, particularly given the outcome of the Senate/House races now THATS! being a drama queen .
So, whatever, I know nothing about anything according to you, so why do you bother asking?
Joe I didn't say you don't know anything. I was just simply asking what you actually found that kerry was going to do so drastically different from bush.
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by flamingoamyjo:
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Kerry's healthcare plan had a big problem....how were we going to pay for it???
RAISE TAXES! Roll back Bush's tax cuts on the top 2% and that would pay for it!
Plus I think as an accountant you would understand that the more people on a plan, the lower the rates are. Just like as an employer if I had over 10 employees, I could get group insurance WAY cheaper with better benefits! The majority of small biz's DONT have 10 employees or more! Bush keeps talking about small bizs banning together for group rates, but he has never done this, all talk!
Brad has to play online poker to pay for his health care premiums
Actually amy you don't need to have ten. We only have 4 and only 3 are on our plan. I have full 100% coverage no deductable with 15 copay for just about everything and our buisness pays 132/mo for that. I think you need to find a new insurer. At ten it wouldnt be any cheaper because we band with other small buisnesses already. It's call private Medica Choice Select.
Works great!
And if you think rolling back top 2% earner tax cuts would pay for socialized health care you need to take another look at the numbers.
IF YOU PEOPLE THINK HEALTH CARE COSTS ARE OUT OF CONTROL NOW JJJJUUUUUUSSSST WAIT UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT HAS CONTROL AND EITHER FULLY MANDATES WHEN YOU CAN SEE YOUR DOCTOR AND WHAT TREATMENTS YOU CAN GET AND WHEN>>>>OR>>>>THE SYSTEM IS EVEN MORE OVERLY USED THAN IT IS NOW CAUSE "HECK THE GOV WILL JUST COVER IT"
Some of you need to read about what goes on as far as waiting lists for needed surgures in countries with socialized health care.....god help us all and on top of that taking home less than 50% of your earnings.
NO THANKS I'LL GO LIVE IN THE OUTBACK WITH MY USP 40 and a first aid kit before I deal with that shit!!!
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by flamingoamyjo: you're correct, I do buy into the social issues. I am not in the top 2% income bracket that a tax cut helps. And those of you who make around $50K don't really benefit from it either. Oh, that $200 you got back goes really far! I guess it bought you a paintball gun
My standard response to this is OK. So we raise taxes. When does it end?!?! When is enough Enough?? When society and the economy colapse under the weight of endless social programs for the ever growing majority who will not pull their own weight in society?!?!?!
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Sorry, but I think its ridiculous to think that with Kerry as prez the whole country would of just fallen to pieces, particularly given the outcome of the Senate/House races now THATS! being a drama queen .
So, whatever, I know nothing about anything according to you, so why do you bother asking?
Joe I didn't say you don't know anything. I was just simply asking what you actually found that kerry was going to do so drastically different from bush.
And my reasoning that I hold Bush accountable for his actions unlike 51% of the country seems to be something you just gloss over
B.J.'s in the whitehouse is a national crisis calling for impeachment but don't touch the sacred Bush doll....
And yes while you've not said it directly you've insulted me over and over in my genuine attempt to bring interesting discussion here.... so I'll just play the asshole liberal leftist role I've been potrayed as so you can all have your sterotypical liberal sounding board and suck each others dicks over how smart and conservative you all are...
[ 11-04-2004, 01:23: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Sorry, but I think its ridiculous to think that with Kerry as prez the whole country would of just fallen to pieces, particularly given the outcome of the Senate/House races now THATS! being a drama queen .
So, whatever, I know nothing about anything according to you, so why do you bother asking?
Joe I didn't say you don't know anything. I was just simply asking what you actually found that kerry was going to do so drastically different from bush.
And my reasoning that I hold Bush accountable for his actions unlike 51% of the country seems to be something you just gloss over
B.J.'s in the whitehouse is a national crisis calling for impeachment but don't touch the sacred Bush doll....
And yes while you've not said it directly you've insulted me over and over in my genuine attempt to bring interesting discussion here.... so I'll just play the asshole liberal leftist role I've been potrayed as so you can all have your sterotypical liberal sounding board and suck each others dicks over how smart and conservative you all are...
Now Joe, just take a powder, we are all friends here no need to spiral further into dimentia on my account....everything is going to be ok....
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chadwick: [QBActually amy you don't need to have ten. We only have 4 and only 3 are on our plan. I think you need to find a new insurer. IF YOU PEOPLE THINK HEALTH CARE COSTS ARE OUT OF CONTROL NOW JJJJUUUUUUSSSST WAIT UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT HAS CONTROL AND EITHER FULLY MANDATES WHEN YOU CAN SEE YOUR DOCTOR AND WHAT TREATMENTS YOU CAN GET AND WHEN>>>>OR>>>>THE SYSTEM IS EVEN MORE OVERLY USED THAN IT IS NOW CAUSE "HECK THE GOV WILL JUST COVER IT"
First off, yes you can get group insurance with just two people, however, there are NO breaks until you get to 10. Your dads biz chooses to pay for this. Find out how much it costs per person, I bet you its close to $600-$800. At Pechiney we paid $1300 per emplyee for their benefits. IS that not insane??
Believe me, I have looked into this with the state, multiple insurance agents, and the MN Chamber of Commerce (who offers group benefits to small bizs with 10 or more employees).
You people think I don't seem to know anything! Living within your means isn't as easy as you think when your self employed and have to invest your money back into your biz. Brad cleared $1000 last year after taxes (yes, that is only three zeros) and I cleared $14000. And I was actually working three jobs last year! I actually think Brad and I live well within our means, you don't see us buying toys we dont need!! You dont see us taking any handouts even though we probably qualify for welfare and foodstamps!
Second, Kerry is NOT for government controlled insurance like Bush tries to make it appear. (man, and you think YOUR NOT getting thru to ME!) He wants everyone to have affordable, quality insurance just like he is entitled to.
As for moving to Canada, maybe I should. My parents have to pay $800 a month just for supplemental insurance to help cover their prescription costs. Since Bush won't allow us to import drugs from Canada. I would have to believe that all of you think that is dumb. Brad's parents had to go back to work when they moved to Florida JUST so they could get group benefits. She was deemed uninsurable because she has breast implants from 15 years ago due to a total masectomy. Now you have to think that is ridiculous. What is WRONG with this country????
And for the hand outs Tranny speaks of and Klaus actually agrees with. Bush has cut all funding to Planned Parenthood, which is where MANY of the country's women turn to for affordable birth control and STD treatment. If we take away their access to that, and on top of it take away abortion, there will be a whole hell of a lot more people on welfare.
[ 11-04-2004, 08:50: Message edited by: flamingoamyjo ]
Posted by Ender (Member # 55) on :
quote:Originally posted by flamingoamyjo: Brad has to play online poker to pay for his health care premiums
How do you think i pay for all my insurance premiums? Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
Posted by Kitty (Member # 89) on :
Insurance premiums or not, we all know that Luke and Brad would play poker regardless.
[ 11-04-2004, 10:11: Message edited by: Kitty ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Now Joe, just take a powder, we are all friends here no need to spiral further into dimentia on my account....everything is going to be ok....[/QB]
Thank you for making my point for me again..
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
First of all Joe, and Amy Jo. I am not personally attacking either of you. Just having a discussion here so don't take anything I say as a personal attack...
quote:Originally posted by flamingoamyjo:
First off, yes you can get group insurance with just two people, however, there are NO breaks until you get to 10. Your dads biz chooses to pay for this. Find out how much it costs per person, I bet you its close to $600-$800. At Pechiney we paid $1300 per emplyee for their benefits. IS that not insane??
It is nowhere near that per person. When we started coverage It was 132 for me and maybe double that for my bosses (dad and his buisness partner) due to their age.
quote: You people think I don't seem to know anything! Living within your means isn't as easy as you think when your self employed and have to invest your money back into your biz. Brad cleared $1000 last year after taxes (yes, that is only three zeros) and I cleared $14000. And I was actually working three jobs last year! I actually think Brad and I live well within our means, you don't see us buying toys we dont need!! You dont see us taking any handouts even though we probably qualify for welfare and foodstamps!
I may not technically "own" a small buisness but I do work for one that I helped start. Belive me I understand the plight of small buisnesses and Kerry's rasing taxes on small buisness was not the answer. Not for me. And not for you. I do not pretend to know exactly what you and brad do and how the numbers work out. I do know that there is alot of work in being part of a very small buisness. 60+ hour work weeks and constant marketing. I work hard so that I can play hard and buy toys. Leaving a 5pm rarely happens for me. I work many weekends and nights. When computers go down here I don't get to just "call I.T.". It is admirable that you do not take handouts that you could. And any self employed person or small buisness owner has lots of work and no job security to speak of. Yet we often get paid less. And you wonder why I am so frustrated with the "blue" party and all its support of UNIONS. Unions that force buisnesses to pay workers beyond what they take in.....
quote: Second, Kerry is NOT for government controlled insurance like Bush tries to make it appear. (man, and you think YOUR NOT getting thru to ME!) He wants everyone to have affordable, quality insurance just like he is entitled to.
This is the EXACT problem I am talking about. I understand medical assistance baised on need TO A POINT. BUT, NOT EVERY PERSON in this country is ENTITLED to have health care. If you can work part of what you are working for is your health care, accept that as a responsible citizen and move on to trying to lower the cost of health care and having a more use baised pricing system. Meaning if you abuse the system you pay for over using it. The entitlement mentality in this country is what will ultimatly destroy our little democratic experiment.
Another point is that NO ONE is denied medical treatment in this country when they need it....That, IS FACT.
quote: As for moving to Canada, maybe I should. My parents have to pay $800 a month just for supplemental insurance to help cover their prescription costs. Since Bush won't allow us to import drugs from Canada. I would have to believe that all of you think that is dumb. Brad's parents had to go back to work when they moved to Florida JUST so they could get group benefits. She was deemed uninsurable because she has breast implants from 15 years ago due to a total masectomy. Now you have to think that is ridiculous. What is WRONG with this country????
Any health care worker with a macro understanding of economics and health care will tell you importing drugs from canada is a POOR short sighted BAD patch to the problem. Socialized health care in other countries is one of the reasons health care is so expensive in this country. This is one area where W has no good answers, BUT Kerry had no good answers either.
[ 11-04-2004, 10:31: Message edited by: Chadwick ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
lol the future....
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
First of all Chad, i know you're not attacking me!
Here is the real kicker. So Brad could get Minn Care if he chose to go without insurance for 4 months (which is their requirement), HOWEVER, he has a prexisting medical condition. If he drops insurance, he will be uninsurable due to prexisiting conditions. He has no choice but to keep his insurance.
You're only entitled to treatment if it is a life threatening emergency. If Brad didn't have insurance and needed a heart surgery or heart medication, he would have to find a way to pay for it.
I don't think there is a big problem with people overusing their insurance. How do you even do that??
You are right, people work for their insurance at companies, but that company pays a HUGE premium. Like I said, I know for a fact that Pechiney paid $1300 per employee per month at our plant alone which had 200 employees. All it takes is a few older people or sick people on the plan to raise it for all of them. And then people bitch when their premiums go up from $50 a month to $75.
It truly is ridiculus. Posted by Mikey (Member # 42) on :
Tell me again, why is it the top 2% responsibility to pay for Premiun health care insurance for the rest of us? I think many people loose sight of the fact that rich people are priveledged and that's just the way it is. It doesn't give the government or us the right to take their money away at significantly higher rates just so we can attempt to live up to their standard. As it is our tax system discourages people from getting too rich as they are taxed, in my opinion, way too much. Why is it a function of our government to assure that everyone has a PREMIUM health care package? IT IS NOT! It is the function of our government to assure that once you have exhausted all your resources you get BASIC health care. That is exactly what is provided right now under programs like Minnesota care. Amy, I think you understand the health care system fully and I do think it sucks that it is difficult for you to afford health care insurance. However, I think your reasoning that simply taxing people more to make it easier for everyone to afford Premium Health care is baseless and wrong. I think it should be the governments responsibility to reform our system of justice so doctors don't have to pay 300 to 400 thousand a year in malpractice insurance. Posted by Mikey (Member # 42) on :
Oh, and I was kidding about the female president thing. I would probably vote for a female Republican! Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Very good post Chad - sums up a lot of my feeling about health care. There are a lot of problems with the current system. I hope Bush can make changes for small business and tort reform to lower costs. I do believe socialized healthcare is not the answer. Competition is what this country is built on - it's as simple as that. Insurance companies need to compete for your business. These huge lawsuits drive up costs and need to be capped.
I like my health plan - I get to choose when and if I will go to the doctor. I am rewarded for not going. I get to keep my 125 plan spending account money if I don't spend it. Problem with socialized systems are that people go to the doctor for every little problem. This drives up costs and makes appointments tough to get.
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Now Joe, just take a powder, we are all friends here no need to spiral further into dimentia on my account....everything is going to be ok....
I have never once said the government should PAY for insurance. (and I was kidding about the raise taxes for it part). The government SHOULD help regulate the insurance companies so they don't keep getting richer and richer off our money. Brad can tell you all about how little the insurance companies will pay the doctors who have done the work on the patients.
Posted by flamingoamyjo (Member # 93) on :
Ok Chad and Joe, you two boys can stop it now. Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
I tried to make them love puppies, but that just pissed them off! Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling... Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Tax cuts do work Joe - they help stimulate the economy. They put more money in small business owners pockets. Something like 3 of 4 new jobs are created by small business. If they have extra income, they are more able to hire more workers. I could go into S corps etc.... maybe some other time.
They didn't work under Bush, Sr. and they curently haven't worked under W. Our economy was booming under Clinton whose economic policies was to "pay as you go". Clinton had record surpluses. You have to have a balanced budget. If you have a program you want, you have to pay for it. If that means raising taxes, so be it. That is why it was asinine for Bush to give a tax cut during an expensive war he needs to pay for.
Posted by Trany (Member # 31) on :
solution:
Don't get sick or hurt
Its easy, donk smoke crack while driving drunk with a heart condition.
It is personal responsability, you need to be held accountable for your actions. Why should we pay to treat your diabeties because you couldnt controll your diet? why should we pay for your angioplasty due to the fact you at Mcdonalds for 20 years? If you cant afford to pay your premiums, figure it out. If you proffession/job are inadaquate to sustain a financial obligation to pay for your health care, then I am sorry you made the wrong carrer choice. If you are in debt because you maxed out your mastercard on internet porn and are now being raped with a 25%apr, too fucking bad. handouts are what you are looking for, and the plate is empty.
Posted by Kitty (Member # 89) on :
You have the typical thinking that most people have; that to shrink the deficit and have a blanaced budget, you need to 1. Raise taxes or 2. Cut spending. Either way, you are cutting the supply of money in the economy, which hurts business whether you are big or small. The golden rule in economics is that to have a growing ecomonyg, you need a growing supply of money. Raising taxes will not do that and is not the most effective way to shrink the defecit. Scott is right, tax cuts do spur the economy and the reason that the middle and upper class tend to be the target is because these people are more likesly to reinvest the money rather then spend it on something useless. That is the goal of tax cuts with the government; put money back in the hands of the investors that will use save it through various methods such as government bonds, etc. (i.e. giving the money back to the government to reduce the deficit or fund whatever programs it wants all while strengthing the economy).
[ 11-04-2004, 12:41: Message edited by: Kitty ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
2 words for ya buddy.
Fuck You, you've proved my point again...
Posted by Ender (Member # 55) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
2 words for ya buddy.
Fuck You, you've proved my point again...
That was 7 words.... Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: I hope Bush can make changes for small business and tort reform to lower costs. I do believe socialized healthcare is not the answer. Competition is what this country is built on - it's as simple as that. Insurance companies need to compete for your business. These huge lawsuits drive up costs and need to be capped.
I like my health plan - I get to choose when and if I will go to the doctor. I am rewarded for not going. I get to keep my 125 plan spending account money if I don't spend it. Problem with socialized systems are that people go to the doctor for every little problem. This drives up costs and makes appointments tough to get.
Now who doesn't understand Health Insurance? Explain to me how tort reforms are going to lower the cost of health insurance? Lawsuits account for less than 1% of the overall cost of healthcare. Plus, lawsuits are against MALPRACTICE insurance companies. Therefore a doctor's malpractice insurance might go up, but not the premium on a patient's plan. Due to ERISA, a person can not bring suit against a healthcare insurance company.
Socialized medicine doesn't work!!! Kerry's plan was not government-controlled. It was group purchasing of the federal employee plan that all federal employees are currently offered. You can imagine buying an insurance plan with 1 million or more enrollees would drive down the price of the policies.
It seems that people are worried that there healthcare decisions are going to be made by the government. How do you think it works now. I submit a bill and some numbnuts with zero medical education determines if MY patient who they have never seen, examined, or even looked at my xrays or chartnotes should be authorized for care and if what I did for them was REASONABLE and NECESSARY. How the FUCK would they know!!! So, you're so worried about government controlling your healthcare. What about the profit mongering insurance companies (which can't be sued due to ERISA) deciding all your healthcare decisions for you.
Plus, people with socialized medicine don't utilize it more, because they can't. There are long waiting lists for virtually everthing. It is impossible to get in to see the doctor. By the time you get in you usually are not sick any more. The doctor I work with is Canadian, he has related how it all works to me.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ender:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
2 words for ya buddy.
Fuck You, you've proved my point again...
That was 7 words....
Ya, but the 2 were especially for asshatboy Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Why waste your breath Crack. They know it all and understand it better than anyone else already.. Imagine YOU actually thinking you know something about this... how dare you Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kitty: You have the typical thinking that most people have; that to shrink the deficit and have a blanaced budget, you need to 1. Raise taxes or 2. Cut spending. Either way, you are cutting the supply of money in the economy, which hurts business whether you are big or small. The golden rule in economics is that to have a growing ecomonyg, you need a growing supply of money. Raising taxes will not do that and is not the most effective way to shrink the defecit. Scott is right, tax cuts do spur the economy and the reason that the middle and upper class tend to be the target is because these people are more likesly to reinvest the money rather then spend it on something useless. That is the goal of tax cuts with the government; put money back in the hands of the investors that will use save it through various methods such as government bonds, etc. (i.e. giving the money back to the government to reduce the deficit or fund whatever programs it wants all while strengthing the economy).
So why doesn't it work? It just makes perfect sense that if you (the government) need money to pay for something, you have to find the money elswhere. BALANCED BUDGET!! It works, CLINTON HAD RECORD SURPLUSES BECAUSE OF IT!!!
Maybe the government needs to stop taking handouts and live within there means and not pay for stuff unless they can pay for it.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Come on Brad you know better then that. We did have a booming economy under Clinton. However, it was headed for recession at the very tail end of his term. Notice I am not saying it was already in recession like a lot of republicans like to say. The definition of recession is three consecutive quarters of negative growth. Clinton had seen two at the end of his term (and I think one a year before that was not consecutive). Then Bush gets into office and sees the third consecutive quarter - followed by 9/11. Please don't tell me it's Bush's fault for a declining economy after 9/11. The way out was to follow the exact same path Kitty just laid out. Cut taxes to spur the economy... It worked and INCREASED tax revenue AND ECONOMIC growth.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
quote: Maybe the government needs to stop taking handouts and live within there means and not pay for stuff unless they can pay for it.
WOW a republican idea - Brad you are on the right track here.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: NO THANKS I'LL GO LIVE IN THE OUTBACK WITH MY USP 40 and a first aid kit before I deal with that shit!!![/QB]
no no... please stop..... to funny..... I would pay to see this.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
It was headed for recession because the technology bubble burst. That was not Clinton's fault. That was the dumbass investors and dot-coms thinking that everything to do with the net was a good thing.
I agree Bush came in at a difficult time, but he has had 3 years to turn around this economy and his policies aren't working. Minimal gains aren't worth cheering about.
We obviously have a difference of opinion on how best to spur an economy. And that is why I'm a democrat and your a republican.
Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: WOW a republican idea - Brad you are on the right track here.
Well maybe Bush should live by this Mantra. He likes to SPEND, but he has no way of paying for it.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
I agree there are differences in our thinking.
So what's you plan? We have talked about tax cuts - what's the alternative? Raising taxes and spending more on government programs.....how does that spur the economy?
[ 11-04-2004, 13:14: Message edited by: Klaus ]
Posted by Kitty (Member # 89) on :
Just a note, it takes more then three years to spur an economy enough to make a large enough difference. Think of how long it took for us to reach our economic boom, that's how long it will take again.
Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: I agree there are differences in out thinking.
So what's you plan? We have talked about tax cuts - what's the alternative? Raising taxes and spending more on government programs.....how does that spur the economy?
I have never said we should spend more on government programs. I said, if your going to pay for something you need to have the money to do it. Balance the budget. Stop running defecits.
We need to stop allowing companies to get cheap labor overseas. Give them tax credits to make jobs here. We need a better import/export ratio, we are on the losing end of this as well.
Give companies an insentive to hiring and create jobs here. Cutting taxes doesn't necessarily encourage companies to create jobs. Give me the business owner more money doesn't make me want to hire someone. Give me a tax credit for hiring someone, then maybe I will.
Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
As far as taxes goes:
I don't support our current heirarchy system. I more support an across the board 10 or 15 or 20% tax for everybody. Or a national sales tax. Pay your share.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
You would rather have a tax credit over more actual money in your pocket? You sound like someone that wants a mortgage so they can take the interest deduction.........
The trade deficeit has been around for the last several decades. And unless you want to start paying 50%-100% more for products at your local Walmart it will continue for a lot of products. Incentives are great (sounds like you are almost saying tax cuts) but they would have to be pretty extreme to get the manufactors to use US labor for cheap products. Lets not even go into unions, because that's a whole other can of worms.
I am all for the balanced budget - it was easy for Clinton with all the $$$ rolling into the government.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
quote:Originally posted by Crack_Dealer: As far as taxes goes:
I don't support our current heirarchy system. I more support an across the board 10 or 15 or 20% tax for everybody. Or a national sales tax. Pay your share.
So you want to increase the taxes on the lower class? People that don't pay any taxes to start with? Good luck getting that one by the democrats....
I just listened to the Bush press conf. and it sounds like he will be going after a simpler tax system over the next couple years. Didn't mention any additional cuts, just a simpler system - so maybe he will do something you like.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mikey: I think many people loose sight of the fact that rich people are priveledged and that's just the way it is.
Yes, all these folks are just spontaniously rich & priviledged, and they're that way because thats the way god wants it...
Heaven forbid anyone give back to the society that allowed them to become so "privilidged"....
This country is all about greed and consumption and the next pop culture fad...
edit: I forgot gross apathy, couch potato ignorance, and dilusional self importance....
[ 11-04-2004, 13:33: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I'm in a union, the biggest state employee's union in the country and I pay no less for my health care than the numbers I've seen thrown around here and my benefits are avg at best...
Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus:
So you want to increase the taxes on the lower class? People that don't pay any taxes to start with? Good luck getting that one by the democrats....
I just listened to the Bush press conf. and it sounds like he will be going after a simpler tax system over the next couple years. Didn't mention any additional cuts, just a simpler system - so maybe he will do something you like.[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with taxing the lower class, everybody pays their equal fair share. That is why I kind of like the idea of a national sales tax. Everybody buys stuff, therefore everybody is paying into the system equally. Would really make you more cost consciuos.
I hope Bush does do something about the tax code. I think the problem and / or solution is the system. And just giving a tax cut alone won't fix it.
Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: The trade deficeit has been around for the last several decades. And unless you want to start paying 50%-100% more for products at your local Walmart it will continue for a lot of products. Incentives are great (sounds like you are almost saying tax cuts) but they would have to be pretty extreme to get the manufactors to use US labor for cheap products.
We can't stay the status quo, we have to stop saying "well this is how it's always been done". We need to fix this problem. Big boon for business, bad for employees. If we don't have employees here in the US, they can't buy anything to spur our economy and they just sit on the doles collecting there unemployment.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Yes, but jobs are shifting from manufactoring to technology. The manufactoring jobs are going over seas - and it's taking the education system a bit to catch up and start offering classes/training in the new jobs. One of Bush's big pushes is to give incentives to go back to school and get training. If you are a laided off manufactoring sector employee maybe you should go get retrained. Change happens and our workforce needs to adapt.
Posted by Crack_Dealer (Member # 68) on :
I agree with this. It is unfortunate we didn't see this coming.
Posted by BoondockSaint (Member # 67) on :
Hehehe
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Ender:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: I'm not pissed, but I might as well play the role I've been relagated too, since my legitimate attempts at discussion only end in name calling...
2 words for ya buddy.
Fuck You, you've proved my point again...
That was 7 words....
Ya, but the 2 were especially for asshatboy
Joe. CALM DOWN!!!!!
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: NO THANKS I'LL GO LIVE IN THE OUTBACK WITH MY USP 40 and a first aid kit before I deal with that shit!!!
no no... please stop..... to funny..... I would pay to see this.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!![/QB]
The point was to be rediculous JOE. Comeon now you ask for discourse and discussion on the issues and you pull crap like this. You argue like a 12 year old girl.
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Joe,
Do you belive you have some supreme insight on wilderness just because you take a few walks around in the AK wilderness? I realize your job takes you many places but lets not get to high and mighty about your wilderness skills. I have played out in the wilderness my fair share...not just in minnesota or the US for that matter.
Posted by Trany (Member # 31) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Mikey: I think many people loose sight of the fact that rich people are priveledged and that's just the way it is.
Yes, all these folks are just spontaniously rich & priviledged, and they're that way because thats the way god wants it...
Heaven forbid anyone give back to the society that allowed them to become so "privilidged"....
This country is all about greed and consumption and the next pop culture fad...
edit: I forgot gross apathy, couch potato ignorance, and dilusional self importance....
Wash your eyes clean of the liberal goo hazing them to an opaque white. The "priveledged" are giving back to society. Call me crazy but don't the rich run companys? Oh yea they do. So its not like they are creating jobs with benefits and comprable wages. The middle class is the greed and lust full class. Give the middle class a tax cut and you will see spiners on brand new escilades.(I guess thats considered a pop culture fad)
Health care reforme is needed, but in a drastic measure. Medicare and Medicaid have fucked your premiums. I belive that Medicare pays something like 2/3's or less of the value, it is not even a sliding fee system. For example: John Doe needs to take an ambulance to the hospital for a chief complaint of chest pain.
Patiant Doe recives ALS care from your local ambulance provider and is transported 10 miles to the closest appropriate medical facility. If John Doe pays cash it is roughly $1000. Not bad if his ticker is shot. While Medicare will pay a little under $600. for the exact same service. So in essance Medicare can be used as a free and discounted taxi downtown to the savy savers who recive it. Insurace companys can negotiate the fees they pay, but not medicare, It is a fixed rate. If John Doe was blessed with a nice insurance policy then he might get off with a nice $120 out of pocket expense.
How do hospitals and clinics recoup these hard defined losses due to the inadaquate prices of medicare? They charge insurers more...... who pass the cost onto the consumer. That nice taxi/ambulance ride John Doe took downtown could cost $1200 next time.
It is the "handout" system that is fucked. Not the insurance companys. They need to cover the cost of the underpaying fedral program.
I personally have a catastrophic policy with dental. I have some absured $250 out of pocket per visit with a 10 or 15k annual cap. All for $110 a month. I dont use it, I just have it in case I saw off my leg or staple my penis to a desk.
I also carried a "married(man and wife)" policy when I was working independantly, it was with BCBS and cost me $440 a month with a $20 copay. It was a little steep but, I made roughly 2k biweekly and payed $220 to BCBS.
So please tell me again why the "priveledged" need to pay more to this system? I COBRA'd my plan when I was unemployeed 5x's durring the end of the Clinton era. I never put my hand out. I saved money and diped into my savings to pay the bills.
The solution is to disolve the Medicare and Medicaid plague that is the bane of the insurance industry.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: The point was to be rediculous JOE. Comeon now you ask for discourse and discussion on the issues and you pull crap like this.
I thought I made it clear I was done trying to add legitimate perspectives....I'm just gonna be the dick that you've been to me for 4yrs..... man you are dense.... Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Joe,
Do you belive you have some supreme insight on wilderness just because you take a few walks around in the AK wilderness? I realize your job takes you many places but lets not get to high and mighty about your wilderness skills. I have played out in the wilderness my fair share...not just in minnesota or the US for that matter.
This makes it evidently clear that you have delusions of grandure and don't give ANYONE the respect they deserve, particularly when you have NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK YOUR TALKING ABOUT REGARDING WHAT I HAVE AND HAVEN'T DONE IN MY LIFE!!!!
[ 11-04-2004, 15:36: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Do you belive you have some supreme insight on wilderness just because you take a few walks around in the AK wilderness? I realize your job takes you many places but lets not get to high and mighty about your wilderness skills. I have played out in the wilderness my fair share...not just in minnesota or the US for that matter.
This makes it evidently clear that you have delusions of grandure and don't give ANYONE the respect they deserve, particularly when you have NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK YOUR TALKING ABOUT REGARDING WHAT I HAVE AND HAVEN'T DONE IN MY LIFE!!!!
Joe you need to take a look in the mirror and realize you are most guilty of what you just claimed there. I didn't say anything about you other than you are in no position to judge the ammount of wilderness experience I have because YOU DO NOT KNOW ME!!
Your hostile overly emotional bullshit is again getting out of hand. Either we call it a truce or this is gonna get realy stupid. (not that it hasn't already).
You have no right to assume anything about me and I have no right to assume anything about you. I have been trying to deal with you lightly (mainly cause I don't give a fuck what you say) So take your obvoulsy serious personal attacks and keep them because they do your credibility no good.
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: The point was to be rediculous JOE. Comeon now you ask for discourse and discussion on the issues and you pull crap like this.
I thought I made it clear I was done trying to add legitimate perspectives....I'm just gonna be the dick that you've been to me for 4yrs..... man you are dense....
Joe just dial back, If you feel hurt by how I have been to you for the last four years. I am sorry. I never intended to hurt your feelings. I didn't think throwing BS around on a web site would cause anyon any angst. This is all just meaningless bullshit. On a scale from 1-10 the shit that goes on on any forum at most matters about at about a 2 level. Give me a break this is all been blown way out of porportion.
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Why? Why did bush realy get re-elected? Because the MAJORITY (60 million who voted) in this country were tired of the overly emotional, liberial, doomsayer, craizies crying and whining for 4 years straight. Ya know what it was? Reasonable, type B personalities give a big FUCK YOU to all the whining, melodramatic, woundup, type-A assholess that won't shut up about bush being demon seed endbringer and losing all adult decency and courtosy in the process!!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jomama: [ /QUOTE]
[ 11-04-2004, 16:37: Message edited by: Chadwick ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Whatever osmosis boy... Some day you may actually figure that one out....
But, this is my problem Chad, illustrated very well here in your post. This is how I've observed you act towards most people here:
1). Dismiss, belittle, and scoff at anyone elses experience, perspective, life, education, opinion... etc... basically trying to make whatever "they" said as irrelivent....
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Joe,
Do you belive you have some supreme insight on wilderness just because you take a few walks around in the AK wilderness?
Ya Chad... a few walks you fucking asshat...
2) Make grandous statements about how you in your unerring world view know at least if not more than anyone on any given subject...
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: I have played out in the wilderness my fair share...not just in minnesota or the US for that matter.
and from a previous discussion.... (don't test my memory)
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: [QB] I like the outdoors as much as you
I highly doubt this....
I've never professed to be a expert or authority on anything (unlike some who may not profess it, but certainly do act like it.... ). However; I would think it's a assumption among "friends" that the length, depth, and intesity of someones life experiences would add just a ounce of credince to that persons perspective when they talk about subjects they deal with daily....
I've never challenged you on your understanding of Engineering, just like I don't challenge Klaus on his understanding of Accounting, or Crack his Med knowledge..... I'd like to see you say the same with a honest face, and I'll give you a littany of posts where your just blatantly a asshole and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because "you just know better"
Yep, I'm intentionally being a total prick, as it seems to be the language you speak the best towards me, I thought I'd return the favor.... Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Joe just dial back, If you feel hurt by how I have been to you for the last four years. I am sorry. I never intended to hurt your feelings. I didn't think throwing BS around on a web site would cause anyon any angst. This is all just meaningless bullshit. On a scale from 1-10 the shit that goes on on any forum at most matters about at about a 2 level. Give me a break this is all been blown way out of porportion.
Whatever dude, I don't really give two shits what your opinion is on a subject anymore. I don't take this home with me. I'm just speaking my fucking mind... is there a problem with that, I call a spade a spade...... Play the drama queen now... "oh, I had no idea I was being a dick all this time.... I didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings..." Paleese Throwing BS around in a fun discussion is one thing... Being a blatant shithead to people in legit serious discussions is another....
I participate on other forums, in more heated contensious discussion, and I've rarely seen anyone as insulting as your method of "discussion" as I outlined below.... So it aint just me guy...
GOP Mantra- "It's all about ME!!!"
[ 11-04-2004, 17:06: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by ProfBooty (Member # 21) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Whatever osmosis boy...
No, no, no - that's Diffusion Joe. Didn't we go over that one before?
I guess as far as all the doom-saying goes with Bush - some of us didn't agree with Clinton and yet survived 8 years of him no worse for wear. I'm sure we'll come out on the other end of 8 years with Bush OK as well. I'm not into blaming the president for things he really doesn't have that much control over and calling him and his voters "dumb" does nothing but drive a wedge further between people.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by ProfBooty:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama: Whatever osmosis boy...
No, no, no - that's Diffusion Joe. Didn't we go over that one before?
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING give that boy a prize....
And for the third time, I'm not going to contribute anything legit or serious anymore hense the shot at all the mouthbreathing jesus freaks you guys are letting take over the country...
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by ProfBooty: some of us didn't agree with Clinton and yet survived 8 years of him no worse for wear.
I'm still waiting for him to knock on my door and confiscate ALL my guns as was professed/predicted by his detractors......
[ 11-04-2004, 17:35: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
This is cool, same as what Klaus posted except:
Of course, blue is for the democrats, red is for the republicans, and green is for all other. Each county's color is a mix of these three color components in proportion to the results for that county.
Counties shown in black represent either missing election data or a mismatch between the US Census data and the USA Today data. For example, the New England states' election return data is given for each municipality and/or district rather than for each county. Hence, it couldn't be easily matched with the county boundaries.
Mandate my ass
[ 11-04-2004, 18:33: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Joe I am totaly willing to make peace with you because this truly is getting boring and I would prefer to not have you grumpy when in town and we play cards or have a LAN party or something.
Anyone on this board will atest to the simple fact that you have been, as much, or more of a prick than I have.
Tell me when I have rolled on the floor laughing when you have claimed to build or design something? What a dick!
Every time I try to make some sort of peace with you you spit in my face. I honestly don't realy care at all, I think it's sad you take it all so seriously (though something says to me that you are still being facetious) cause to be so serious about this seems weird and and dosn't quite add up. If not, oh well. Looking forward to seeing you this christmas for some cards or games. Have a nice day!
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Course when you are in town if you want to have a knockdown-drag-out. I'm all for that too! Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: NO THANKS I'LL GO LIVE IN THE OUTBACK WITH MY USP 40 and a first aid kit before I deal with that shit!!!
no no... please stop..... to funny..... I would pay to see this.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!![/QB]
Oh, and yeah, this has totaly been a once sided deal of me being a dick to you! I am suposed to take you and lend "credince" to you knowledge and tallents when you do stuff like this? Why would you expect me to do any thing else than try to push your buttons after posting this type of crap?
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Anyone on this board will atest to the simple fact that you have been, as much, or more of a prick than I have.
Show me where please (that I dismissed/rude/insulted your input first) and I'll own up?
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Tell me when I have rolled on the floor laughing when you have claimed to build or design something? What a dick!
I must have missed this post? Where the fuck did I laugh at something you designed or built... I've never challenged ANYTHING you've posted about the engineering world....
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick:
quote:Originally posted by Jomama:
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: NO THANKS I'LL GO LIVE IN THE OUTBACK WITH MY USP 40 and a first aid kit before I deal with that shit!!!
no no... please stop..... to funny..... I would pay to see this.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Oh, and yeah, this has totaly been a once sided deal of me being a dick to you! I am suposed to take you and lend "credince" to you knowledge and tallents when you do stuff like this? Why would you expect me to do any thing else than try to push your buttons after posting this type of crap?[/QB]
reap what you sew guy....
You act like its just today go back thru damn near any post I started and you'll be there being dismissive and insulting to the points I've presented....
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I didn't say its just one sided, I'm just openly throwing your shit right back at you now.... Mabey you won't like being on the recieving end of your own attitude...
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
This....
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Joe I am totaly willing to make peace with you because
followed/qualifed by this.....
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Anyone on this board will atest to the simple fact that you have been, as much, or more of a prick than I have.
Yes, you sure are putting your self above all this in the interest of "peace" Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Joe, you are a great woodsman. Please lets just give it up... Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chadwick: Joe, you are a great woodsman. Please lets just give it up...
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Not something I want, but with both sides having thousands of lawyers at the ready it is bound to be a total cluster fuck. ![[brd]](graemlins/brdflick.gif)
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Voting is just something so unique and important to this country.. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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no no... 
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