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Author Topic: Goblin Grenade
RockLobster
Rotor Head
Member # 45

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Ruling on Goblin Grenade:

The following is the updated wording of goblin grenade:

quote:
Goblin Grenade
{R}
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play Goblin Grenade, sacrifice a Goblin.
Goblin Grenade deals 5 damage to target creature or player.

And the following is the current rules for playing spells and activated abilities: (the pertinent rules in bold)

quote:
409. Playing Spells and Activated Abilities

409.1. Playing a spell or activated ability follows the steps listed below, in order. If, at any point during the playing of a spell or ability, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the spell was played illegally; the game returns to the moment before that spell or ability was played (see rule 422, “Handling Illegal Actions”). Announcements and payments can’t be altered after they’ve been made.

409.1a The player announces that he or she is playing the spell or activated ability. It moves from the zone it’s in to the stack and remains there until it’s countered or resolves. In the case of spells, the physical card goes onto the stack. In the case of activated abilities, the ability goes onto the stack without any card associated with it. Each spell has all the characteristics of the card associated with it. Each activated ability that’s on the stack has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. The controller of a spell is the player who played the spell. The controller of an activated ability is the player who played the ability.

409.1b If the spell or ability is modal (uses the phrase “Choose one —” or “[specified player] chooses one —”), the player announces the mode choice. If the spell or ability has a variable mana cost (indicated by {oX}) or some other variable cost, the player announces the value of that variable at this time. If the spell or ability has alternative, additional, or other special costs (such as buyback or kicker costs), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 409.1f). You can’t apply two alternative methods of playing or two alternative costs to a single spell or ability. Previously made choices (such as choosing to play a spell with flashback from his or her graveyard or choosing to play a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player’s options when making these choices.

409.1c If the spell or ability requires any targets, the player first announces how many targets he or she will choose (if the spell or ability has a variable number of targets), then announces the targets themselves. A spell or ability can’t be played unless the required number of legal targets are chosen. The same target can’t be chosen multiple times.

409.1d If the spell or ability targets one or more targets only if an alternative, additional, or special cost (such as a buyback or kicker cost) is paid for it, or if a particular mode is chosen for it, its controller chooses those targets only if he or she announced the intention to pay that cost or chose that mode. Otherwise, the spell or ability is played as though it did not have those targets.

409.1e If the spell or ability affects several targets in different ways, the player announces how it will affect each target. If the spell or ability requires the player to divide an effect (such as damage or counters) among a number of objects or players, the player announces the division. Each of these objects or players must receive at least one of whatever is being divided.

409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text, and some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all cost increases and minus all cost reductions. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

409.2. Some spells and abilities specify that their controller’s opponent does something the controller would normally do while it’s being played, such as choose a mode, choose targets, or choose how the spell or ability will affect its targets. In these cases, the opponent does so when the spell or ability’s controller normally would do so. If the spell or ability instructs both players to do something at the same time as it’s being played, the spell’s controller goes first, then his or her opponent. This is an exception to rule 103.4.

409.3. Playing a spell or ability that alters costs won’t do anything to spells and abilities that are already on the stack.

409.4 A player can’t begin to play a spell or activated ability that’s prohibited from being played by an effect.

Thus since sacraficing a goblin is part of the total cost of playing goblin grenade the goblin is sacraficed before the spell "gobline grenade" goes on the stack and thus cannot be responed too.

This has two reprocussions:

1) You cannot respond to (and thus prevent) goblin grenade by killing the goblin since the goblin is sacraficed as part of the casting cost of goblin grenade. It is gone before goblin grenade goes on the stack only after goblin grenade is on the stack can you respond with an instant and place it on the stack.

2) Countering the goblin grenade soccery spell will not save the goblin since it has already been sacraficed as part of the casting cost in the same way that you dont get the mana back from casting a counterd spell. The goblin is still sacraficed even if goblin grenade is counterd in some way.

The only way you could stop this spell is by killing the goblin is by doing so at some other time such as durring the prior combat phase or durring that players upkeep. Or killing it after the active player has passed a spells and abilities step of another phase. But since Gobling grenade is a sorcery and the active player always has priority you must allow gobling grenade on the stack and cannot stop it without countering it or preventing the damage.

Another reason goblin grenade is broken.

Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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