Can you give me a brief history breakdown on these since I know even less about the newer vehicles. Pro/con variations between different years, etc..... If I can't get a diesel in from Canada I might go this route.
Klaus I remember you mentioned that you were looking for specific years. Why inparticular??? Anything specifically wrong with the models earier than yours???
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Cramer/Pfaff can probably give you the technical spec differences but...
The 1991-1994 80's have a larger tranny but different computer/fuel injection system.
1995-1997 FZJ-80 have the smaller Tranny (still very beefy, used in Jap buses) and updated fuel mapping and computer. The engine is also changed from the '94 and older models. Although still a 4.5liter straight 6 like most Cruisers.
Posted by Rusty Wallace Sucks Ass (Member # 5) on :
I would talk to Mc Kraken or Scott. They, I am SURE, have all the specifics on these trucks.
I think they are VERY, VERY COOL, but I have not spent any time researching the differences and year-specific options on these trucks.
-Steve
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
What kinda milage are you getting Klaus??? And how much is that affected when your towing the Jetski's (I think they'd be about the equivalent weight, if not more, to the raft I'd be towing around).
Do they all have the "Locker" option???
You put a suspension lift on yours didn't you Klaus??? How much did that run $$$$ if you don't mind sharing???
What kinda improved preformance is the turbo/supercharger addition supposed to ad????(not sure if its only one, or both are options but I remember you mentioning this)
Is the turbo supposed to improve MPG???
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I didn't mean not to ask you McKraken, I'd like your input too.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: The 1991-1994 80's have a larger tranny but different computer/fuel injection system.
What reputation does this fuel injection system have in comparison to the newer one????
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Oh boy lots of questions….
They do not all have the locker option. See the other thread in this forum for a picture of the switch. Most soccer Mom’s do not know what lockers are so if you call on any of these ask them if they have the switch to the left of the steering wheel.
I have the 3in Old Man Emu suspension lift. I paid $599 for: 4 springs, 4 shocks, steering stabilizer, caster correction kit (not installed yet).
There are two options: Safari Turbo(’91-’97) – Adds about 100 horse power/100 torque. Can run any octane fuel. Good power throughout RPMs. Mileage unchanged. $4000-$6000 installed.
TRD Supercharger (’95-’97) – Add about 90 horse power/100 torque. Must run high octane fuel. Good only in certain RPM ranges. Mileage unchanged. $2200-$3000 self bolt in install.
Most people on the FJ-80 list run the TRD – they all love it.
I get about 12 – 15 mpg. The mileage does not change when pulling the Jetski’s – they weigh about 2500lbs.
The newer FZJ-80’s get better mileage compared to the pre 1995 model. Hey, once I got 19 mpg on the way to Chicago
I guess that wasn’t that many questions. Got anymore??
Posted by ProfBooty (Member # 21) on :
I don't think I buy the statement that the turbo would be good at "all RPM ranges". No turbo can perform well at lower RPMs (<1500 or so) simply due to the reduced exhaust flow at those engine speeds. Even a variable geometry turbine like my Jetta uses still struggles at low RPMs. I would expect the turbo would be great at 2000 and above. The supercharger would probably do better at lower RPMs and eventually can't keep up with the air demands at high RPMs. So if you're drag racing, go for the turbo. If you're towing and doing everyday stuff, the supercharger should be great. Besides, who can afford $4000-6000 for the turbo? Ouch!
Also, forced induction can't help mileage in a gasser. This is because the 14.5:1 fuel-air ratio must be maintained or you'll go lean and bad things will happen. The fuel is just delivered at a higher rate to match the increased air volume. Diesels of course, are a different story....
[ 08-12-2002, 16:04: Message edited by: ProfBooty ]
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
But because of the increased fuel and air you are getting more bang for your buck so therefore millage could easily remain unchanged. You get a certain ammount of energy out of a certain mass of fuel. The key is to burn all of that fuel and to have the highest pressure ratio in a piston engine. The higher the ratio the more force on the shaft (in the simplest analysis). To obtain more of a ratio you insert more air but to maintain the proper ratio you insert more gas. Thus more power all around both from the extra gas and the extra air (pressure). Otherwise why would you ever turbocharge/supercharge? Yes there are some losses because the engine itself is on one way or another driving the components that create higher intake pressures. These losses are in addition to standard engine losses but are often sufficently offset by the gains of the higher intake pressures.
Another big key is to burn all of the fuel. Though combustion is fast sometimes it is not fast enough or not timmed right with the rate cylces of the engine therefore unburnt gas and thus potential power goes out the tailpipe. So a better more powerful ignition system is the key.
In the case many after market turbo's and super chargers it is also a good idea to change the fuel pressure regulator to allow the higher fuel flow and help limit the possibility of pressure drops in the fuel injection system. Because as you said, lean is bad.
[ 08-12-2002, 16:36: Message edited by: Chadwick ]
Posted by ProfBooty (Member # 21) on :
You do reach a limit with a gas engine on boost and compression ratio. The charge air from a turbo/supercharger is damn hot, even with inter/aftercooling. A higher compression ratio creates higher cylinder temps. Eventually, the fuel will detonate before the spark if you blow in too much air and compress the fuel-air mixture too much. In some cases, you actually have to reduce the engine's compression ratio to accept an aftermarket turbo.
Posted by ProfBooty (Member # 21) on :
BTW Joe - Do they have diesel FZJ80's in Canada? I thought Toyota pretty much stopped selling diesels in North America (excluding maybe, Mexico)?
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by ProfBooty: BTW Joe - Do they have diesel FZJ80's in Canada? I thought Toyota pretty much stopped selling diesels in North America (excluding maybe, Mexico)?
Not that I've seen yet. The most recent Diesels I've seen have been a HZJ73 Troopie and Pickup. The Troopie 's in Colorado and the Pickup is in Canada. A LOT of BJ & HJ 60's though. And tons of BJ42's too.
Posted by ProfBooty (Member # 21) on :
Cool deal. Can't wait 'til we get ultra low sulfer diesel in 2006 and manufacturers can meet US emissions. Hopefully the floodgates will open for light duty diesel engines. Ford is already talking about a V6 Powerstroke engine for the F150 and Ranger in the '06 model year. They already have a TDI Focus in Europe and want to bring it to the US in a big way. Mercedes is supposedly bringing back a diesel even before '06. Maybe we'll finally see Toyota diesels in the US.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
One of my favorite explainations of Diffs: Diffs for Dummies Posted by P_McCracken (Member # 20) on :
Mine is a 10/95 - 1996 model year. I looked around at a lot of 1997 model year trucks (looking for the newest truck I could find,) but none of them had the diff locks. I bought the first one I found with the diff locks.
From what I've read, and it may not be 100% accurate, Toyota made the FJ80 from 1991-1992. It had the 4.0L engine from the FJ62 (155hp @ 4000rpm, 220ft-lbs @ 3000rpm.) The 4spd tranny is mated to tcase with a center diff that was locked from a button on the dash. There are no factory diff locks. It also had rear drum brakes and other minor differences. From 1993-1997 Toyota made the FZJ80 with the 4.5L DOHC 24 valve engine (212hp @ 4600rpm, 275ft-lbs @ 3200rpm.) The 4spd tranny is mated to a tcase that has a center viscous coupling with no hi-range center lock (center diff is locked when it’s put in low range.) A factory center diff lock switch from an earlier model can be installed to lock the viscous coupling in high range (and turn off the ABS.) Diff locks were an option. It also has front & rear disc brakes. I think there were two different models of trannys in the FZJ80s but they were essentially the same.
I’ve been getting about 14-15 mpg around town but haven’t had it on a longer trip to see what the highway mileage is.
I think the diesels are HDJ80s or HZJ80s.
[ 08-13-2002, 17:48: Message edited by: P_McCracken ]
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Mine is also a 10/95 truck. I wonder how far apart they were on the line???
Posted by Rusty Wallace Sucks Ass (Member # 5) on :
The early 1991-1992 '80's that have rear drum brakes, also have the semi-float rear axle, same as the 60 series. The rear disc brake( started in '93 ) units, have the Toyota full-float rear axle, and a 8" center section ( diff ). The drum brake unit has the same diff as your 40 would use, the gear-ratio is also 4.10-4.11 on this axle.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
So I happened to look at a 92 yesterday. I didn't even see the center diff lock button that McKraKen refers too. They want $10,500 with 115K miles on it.
Otherwise, Klaus you said the front/rear diff switch should be just to the left of the steering wheel????? (but it won't be in this year vehicle)
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
And here is Christo Slee's Site: www.sleeoffroad.com Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
So can you "Chip" an 80 series?????
Posted by Rusty Wallace Sucks Ass (Member # 5) on :
You bet,
You could chip it in your driveway, or your garage, if you take it to the mall, it might get chipped, and IF YOU take it off road, it WILL get chipped. Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Ha Ha very funny mf.
Posted by Rusty Wallace Sucks Ass (Member # 5) on :
NO CHIP FOR YOU!!!
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
So would you guys (any of you) buy a 92???? or would you hold out for a 93/94???? Posted by Rusty Wallace Sucks Ass (Member # 5) on :
Depends on the condition and the price. I would " prefer " to have 4 wheel disc brakes and the rear full-float axle, but you should not have any problems whatsoever wtih the 92's. I would try and find one with the " Z " series engine( dual over head cams, blah blah blah ), unless you can get a diesel 80, but that is just me, and it will be quite a few years before I will own one of those trucks.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
I would agree, wait for a '95+ if you want to spend the extra $$$. The earlier 80's are nice but the Z engine and disc breaks make the newer ones more atractive. Plus you might want to add a super charger later - only 95-97 have a SC available.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Now I'm a really confused. According to McKrakens previous post, 1993 and later models are the FZJ80's, and have all the desired "improvements" (updated engine, rear-disks, optional Frnt/Rear Diff-Lock, etc....... Why are you saying look for a 95???
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Yes, the engine is the Z, but the updated fuel mapping and the smaller trany were not until 1995.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
So Boys, I've managed to sell my truck (pending) and have a cruiser to buy . 1993, Has locking diff, 81,000 miles (thats 50K less than my truck), damn clean except for a little leather wear on the seats, and 1 headlight glass is broken. Seems to run real strong. Second owner, is ordinary famliy man. He pulled jetski's and snowmobiles around with it a little. 17grand.
Does this sound like a worthy purchase??????
[ 09-16-2002, 00:12: Message edited by: Jomama ]
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Wow, low miles for a 1993. Lockers and leather is a good find, have you confirmed that the lockers engage?
As far as the price goes I would say the seller is about 2k-5k high. If you check www.kbb.com the private seller price is about 12k for that truck in excellent condition. Of course in Alaska I am sure the market is much different with a lot less supply. The SUV market has been depressed for the last couple years, pretty much since about 2 months after I bought my truck. The problem is the sellers still believe that they can get top dollar for their trucks, especially LC owners. I did a quick scan of the FZJ-80 newgroup - found 2 for sale. A 1993 with 150k miles for 10,500 and a 1995 with 80k miles for 17,000. The list members heckled the '95 guy for asking so much and told him to lower it to 12,000. Let me know if you want more info. I would recommend looking further out, it might be worth it to get one from the lower states if you can save $5,000. Seems like Califorina has a lot of sellers at the moment. How long has the seller had the truck for sale????
Posted by Rusty Wallace Sucks Ass (Member # 5) on :
Joe,
How did you verify that it has locking front and rear diff's?
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I've drove the truck, it has the switch for the frnt/rear Diff, I'll be going back once more cause I did forget to try and turn it on/off, along with engaging the 4x4
Wow, I'm suprised you got such a low book on it. If you look at the online Kelly Blue Book & NADA Used Vehicle book, it does incorperate location & regional prices into estm price of the vehicle using your zip code. I came up with 16,500-17,000 with the NADA & the Kelly Blue Book. I'll have to check out the site you linked to. And your right, people tend to get top dollar for SUVs and anay 4x4's up here. He just put it up for sale last weekend, and suposidly he has a three guys including me that are interested but one of the other poss buyers is out of town till next weekend. I talked to the toyota dealership here, and he said they rarely have Cruiser on the lot. I've seen mostly newer ones on lots anyway. I've looked at buying them in Seattle or something, and have talked to a couple of dealerships (they've been priced similarly on the few I've found though, and none with as low of miles). But I don't think in the long run it would actually save me that much money considering I'd have to buy a one-way ticket plus drive it up here, that'd be at least S1000-1500.......
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Is there a easy way to "CONFIRM" that the lockers are engaging???????
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
All FZJ-80's are full time 4WD.
Here are the steps to testing the lockers. 1) Engage low range. 2) Turn the switch to on for both FR & RR.
The lights will blink. Once the lights stop blinking they are engaged. If I don't use mine for awhile, they will blink for up to 20 seconds. Usually they only take a second or two. If he has never used them which is probably the case - they might not want to engage at all (continue to blink). If you move the wheels back and forth and drive a bit sometimes you can get them to click in.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Thats right, I forgot about the fulltime 4x4.
I did the Kelly Blue Book link you sent me again and came up with 18K this time, it must be the regional resale factor thats jacking it up so much (zip 99517)...
Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
Probably because they don't use salt up there?
Everyone knows how well toyotas and road salt get along.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
I get 14,500 - 15,500 depending on the condition for that zip code. Are you doing private party or dealer????
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
I got 18K the first time when used the "WHATS MY BLUEBOOK VALUE" for a private party. But if you use the "USED CAR VALUE FOR SHOPPERS", private party, I got 15,500, same as you did????? I don't get the difference.
I don't think this guy is gonna come done much if at all. He has a plethora of vehicles right now, and even told me that he was reconsidering selling the cruiser if I or this other guy don't buy it (may be just saying this). I thought about offering him 16k initially and see what he says.
I would consider I'm paying for a little convienence here. If I sell my pickup, I don't have another vehicle to drive around in the meantime before I buy another truck (that'd be an additional hassle to trying to buy a out-of-state cruiser). I cant have both trucks at the same time.
Am I just rationalizing this though????
Any more comments about the truck, anything else thats typically messed up that I should have checked???? The front end has supposidly been gone thru this summer, bunch of seals replaced. I read somewhere last night that the CV joints have a tendancy to wear out @around this mileage (any truth to that)????
I also read a post by and individual on a forum who says he has the TRD supercharger on a 93. But you didn't think that was compatable with this year did you Klaus???
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Hey, it's totally up to you. I just wanted to let you know I thought it was a little high. You probably won't find anything with 60,000 on it again so it's a good find in that respect.
I would make sure the transmission is good. There usually is a "clunk" that can be heard when the truck starts on that year, but that's normal (driveline slop). The front end needs to be rebuilt every 100k or so they say, so you should be good there.
I strongly suggest signing up for the 80scool mailing list that I subscribe to. You need to goto yahoo groups and sign in, then sign up. You can browse the archives from there. I wouldn't suggest receiving the posts as emails, because there are usually 100-200 posts a day. Here is the associated web site -
[ 09-16-2002, 12:44: Message edited by: Klaus ]
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
In driving it, I certainly didn't notice any slop in swithing the trany into different "gears". Didn't make any noise, driving down the road, accelerating, stopping, etc..... Not really anything so far that made me think "hey" something might be worn out (but what the hell do I know other that a slight level of common sense).
I'm gonna drive it one more time (check the diff), a little longer if I have the time, before I make an offer.
The Difflock is electric correct???? What if these don't work or fail, sounds like an expensive repair.
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
Lockers are electric. If they do not engage there is a write up on how to take them apart and clean the whole thing out. Otherwise, a new locker motor is like $800.
If you drive it and the lockers don't work I would call a dealer in front of him and get a price to get a new motor - then take that off the price of the truck Then go and fix them yourself.
Posted by Rusty Wallace Sucks Ass (Member # 5) on :
So,
Did you buy this thing????
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
No, I got thwarted on two levels. Primarily I lost the buyer on my truck after he said he wanted it and gave me a price I accepted.
Second, due to the age of the cruiser, the bank would only give me a three year loan. But because they hold their value so much, the payments would be like buying a new vehicle.
If I could afford that I wouldn't be buying a 93 cruiser......
Oh well.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Should sign papers on a 93 today
People keep looking at me funny as I walk down the hall singing to myself "Im driving a cruiser again, yeah, yeah, driviinnn a cruiserrrr againnn".....
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
LOL
I hope everything works out for you..... A damn nice truck. I am jealous that you have grey leather Posted by Left-Coast (Member # 77) on :
Don't know if any of you have seen this, but I think you'll start to see more and more 80 series trucks and/or 80 series parts on the trails in the future as their prices come down.
This is actually a project Christo Slee has been working on. Basic idea is to convert an 80 series to a Pick-up style trail rig.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
Hey Klaus
Is there a serious issue with aftermarket airfilters and the 80 series in general (I know its just an airfilter, and seems trivial). I see a relatively large amount of discussion on the yahoo group about this, but don't really get exactly what the issue is so I can't interpret the post very well. I've only glance under the hood so far.
Is there a filter and a pre-filter?
The group seemed against K&N's?
And it seemed they were mostly suggesting to buy toyota OEM filters exclusively. So I can't go buy Fram or some other aftermarket???
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
I use a TRD reuseable filter (K&N type) without problem. I haven't been following the group lately so I don't know the nature of the dicussion - but I believe any paper/foam filter would be fine. Just remember that 50% of the people on the yahoo list have superchargers so they may be referring to something that effect S/C cruisers.
Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
TRD being a Toyota Racing Development product???
Where did you buy that and how is it priced compared to the somewhat spendy K&N?
I've used K&N's on the Ford. The only thing I don't like, is no matter what I do, it does't "SEEM" as if its cleaning up as its supposed to. Anyone else use these and like'em?
Do you go thru the Oil/Clean regime with the TRD filter, and how often?
Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
I got it from a guy on the list that sold parts super cheap (Bullbar shipped $450) - he is no longer around so you might try one of the other guys on the list for a good price.
I haven't serviced if since I bought it several months ago.
Posted by Left-Coast (Member # 77) on :
If you're looking for OEM product (although, I do think he does some TRD stuff too) the cheapest I've found ha been John Hocker. A real cruiser guy and good prices, and no sales tax.
John Hocker john_hocker@sierratoy.com Toyota Certified Master Parts Manager Sierra Toyota, Inc. Sierra Vista, AZ (520)458-8880 www.sierratoy.com
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