posted
I'm surprised you guys haven't said anything on this considering the discussion points.
Anyway, 3,000 refugees are on their way to Camp Ripley this week, and the State Patrol has requested 40 Troopers to go help police them (along with the National Guard). And Tiff was picked.
Should be pretty exciting, and I'm glad we're able to help, but I certainly hope these punks don't try and take advantage of the situation of someone helping them out...
And, if anyone's ever been to Camp Ripley, you know what's right outside the main gate...I hope that base is locked down...
posted
Other than dissabled vets this was the first time I directly contributed money to something.
There is a direct link to donate on the Red Cross' website where the funds only go to the Hurricane relief fund.
I will say that this has spawned a shameless class warefare debate and entitlement mentality that could span alot of negative effects in this country. I can't imagine dealing with what they are dealing with so I take the quotes from the people down there with a grain of salt. But, the entitlement attitutde is beyond belief in this country. Democracy will die when it's people in too many numbers take from the common good more than they contribute....history has proven that...
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I blame the last three admins for not dealing with the levee problem... But the previous 2 admins didnt have the backdrop of 9/11 either....
Im not placing blame due to the weather, or even prediction.. just the piss poor planning and response.. which IMO is very telling of the priorities of this admin...
I blame this administration for being mired in "group-think".. and its been my opinion since watching the first term, that this adminstration, and Bush in particular, has a overwhelming disdain for "the govt" as a whole... His father.. I have oodles of respect for.. lifelong public servant.. regardless of our political differences... Jr... well.. shortsighted ingorant numbskull...
They want to turn the govt into a corporation.. and while there may be lessons for the govt to learn from the private sector, they are not the same... and should not be treated as such... I've watched as this admin (I'm talking the admin.. not the GOP as a whole) has blindly tweaked every level of DOI and DOA.... for what... to benefit the few... elite corp interest... This tweaking of something they didnt understand (or care to) in the first place will have repercussions for generations.... all for the sake of short term profits for a few interests....
Now we're seeing what happens when the tweaked FEMA (see gutted) in the wake of 9/11... This in tern resulted in the departure of the previous head a FEMA, a very well respected man who had worked for both previous admins and was a key player in the quality of FEMA respons's prior to this event...
Seems this last part has been a common trend with this admin... Someone who knows their job dares to disagree with the admin, or point out what they NOT considering, and in one way, shape, or form we loose their expertiece and just quality managment for lesser, inferior, appointees....
Total result of group think.. Not the first time its happend at the POTUS level..... See JFK and the Bay of Pigs debacle vs the Cuban Missle Crisis...
This admin is a menace.
quote:george bush today (sept 1, 2005) on good morning america.
"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."
as well as the fact that bush cut 7 percent of the budget from the army corps of engineers this year, 13 percent last year. this disaster as well as a san fransisco earthquake and a major terrorist attack in new york are the top 3 things our government was told to take action on.
After reading this I immediately remembered that the bush administration line oft repeated by many of them in the wake of 9/11 was that "no one could have anticipated that terrorists would turn airplanes into missles by flying them into buildings" but in reality both the fbi and cia had indeed theorized about the possibility early in the clinton years.
quote: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us." -- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004.
quote: "This is horrible, terrible and devastating," says Claude Strauser, who retired in January from the Army Corps of Engineers. "But everybody knew it was vulnerable."
computer models showed that the levees and flood walls guarding the city would be overwhelmed by even a Category 3 hurricane they were designed to withstand.
quote: For all the president’s statements ahead of the hurricane, the region seemed woefully unprepared for the flooding of New Orleans—a catastrophe that has long been predicted by experts and politicians alike. There seems to have been no contingency planning for a total evacuation of the city, including the final refuges of the city’s Superdome and its hospitals. There were no supplies of food and water ready offshore—on Navy ships for instance—in the event of such flooding, even though government officials knew there were thousands of people stranded inside the sweltering and powerless city.
I believe and hope that this will be a catalyst for the majority of this country to stop the petty ideological powerstruggle and at least move slightly more toward pragmatic, realistic planning and problem solving... And by planning I mean FORCE the politicians to start looking beyond their next term...
Flame away....
Posts: 2469 | From: Anchorage, AK | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I will not respond to any "blaming" comments until the results of the 25 "commissions" now being considered are published. We simply don't know enough about the situation at this point to jump to conclusions. A lot of people fucked up is all I can say - including the citizens of New Orleans for not leaving, the Mayor of New Orleans for not issuing an manditory order to get out, the Governor for not handing the situation over to the feds, and the Bush administration (FEMA etc) for acting 24 hours later then they should have.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
One could argue that we deserve everything we got for building maintaining a city that exists below sea level as New Orleans does and its very existince as we now know (and many people knew before) relied on an intricate, expansive system of unavoidably vulnerable levies. For god sakes if they lost power for more than a couple weeks the same thing would have happened as they rely on pumps in such great capacity.
If a storm that "missed" hadn't caused it now, imagine what some well placed C4 by any terrorist organization in the world would have done (no evacuation warning). And no amount of leve improvments could avoid a well designed attack to do so. Much easier planned and executed than flying airliners into buildings.
I am one of those people who is frustrated with the way this country is going, but i do not belive for a second that the fault lies squarly or even mostly with one man.
Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I actually sympathize with the argument that most of these people did not have the resources to leave. If that is the case. But I do not think all of them had this problem, as proven by the cars floating outside the front doors as they are sitting on the roof.
I do think the mayor and gov are doing alot of yelling and finger pointing on radio etc for as busy as they should be... like the mayor blaming bush for lack of governmental leadership in the face of this disaster then using the rudy guliani after 9/11 as a good example who happend to be the mayor of new york.
posted
I DEFINETLY AGREE we need to stop worring about and spending so much time debating crap like abortion and gay marrage, for fuck's sake! Posts: 2331 | From: Rosemount | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sorry.. not blame... accountability.. and I said "administration" not one man.. but that one man has chosen to surround himself with a bunch of ideological "yes" men.. (with a few exceptions) hence the group think mentality, instead of challenging his ideology by pushing for diversity within his admin.. The few token "fringe" thinkers that have been brought in.. have since left.. Christine Todd Whitman & Powell to name a few...
But yes.. I think he's a failure... I wont even start the thread.. but he broke my final straw a few weeks ago when he came out and openly admitted he doenst have the foggiest idea how to distinguish between Legit Science and matters of faith (see all the I.D. nonsense.. the continuing dumbing down of 'Merica )
23% of the population lived below the poverty level... Thats a staggering percentage.. the poorest of the poor.. As I believe the mayor put it.. we failed those in need who needed it most...
Imagine it being August 24th.. You have your rent money.. say $600.. $1000 if your lucky.. and this comes along...
They're not foreign to hurricanes.. they know the risks.. but they've survived them before.. Your not talking about the most intellectually astute demographic either.... So do you risk that money.. do you drive 200 miles inland.. (to where?) assuming you have a vehicle to make the trip.. and blow your rent on a hotel for a few days.. and what.. wait it out... then what.. if your wrong.. no rent... I'm not making excuses.. just some perspective....everyone lives beyond their means in some situs.. we're all guilty of it...
Yes.. the Mayor and Gov should of stepped up and done more as the final hours came closer.. but without massive Aid from the Fed level... a state like this just doesnt have the resources to handle a evac of this magnitude.. much less the aftermath.... And the reality is.. (see my links) because this was KNOWN to be one of the biggest potential disasters that could happen here..I put more responsibility on the Fed level than the state and local..
And now we have our own palistine (meaning approx 1million refugees).. and what will the long term effects be here...??? Its not like the majority of the displaced are skilled workers.. who can compete in other cities job markets.. their the poorest of the poor...those that can move on will.. those that could avoid the storm did for the most part...
I think there will be long term consequences that just cant be visualized yet...
I have a huge problem with poverty "level" statistics in this country. Why? Much of the poor in this country have it better than the middle class in most countries. Living in subsidiesed single family homes with more than 2000 Fsqft. Two cars, multiple computers and color televisions, full cupboards all the time.
In otherwords there are LOTS of statistically "empoverished" people in this country that live better than I do....
This is not to say that many of the people down there are not in very dire straits.
I also doubt that the majority of these people did not have relatives to go live with.
posted
This is a whole line of fuck ups, starting with the ignorant citizens, to the mayor, the Gov, the feds and FEMA. I think rather then blame people now we should work on stabilizing the levee and pumping the flooded city. The aftermath of this must lead to better preparedness from every party from the citizen to FEMA. This was an absolute logistics and plan fucked up from the get go. There should have been a order to evacuated, and a line of buses and transports heading out of the city. Just fix the problem then you can all play the blame game, Bush did this or didn't it's all irrelevant at this point.
Posts: 740 | From: Tranyland Pending | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
315,568 Louisiana households had registered for temporary housing 140,000 to 160,000 homes had been submerged or destroyed 530 sewage treatment plants were inoperable 3 of the city's 148 pumps - each capable of pumping 4,600 cubic feed per second - were operational 41,000 National Guard members and 17,000 active-duty troops
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can't believe I am saying this, but I have to agree with Trany (I know this will come back on haunt me someday). Everyone needs to stop playing the Monday morning quarterback and just fix the problem that has occured. So many people have used this disaster to plug thier own political agenda that it is absolutely sick! A Hurricane is not about politics, it's a natural disaster not caused by any one person, group, etc. If everyone would just stop pointing fingers, maybe the rebuilding and clean up will happen much faster and the people who need the help can get it. I don't know if this is a news flash, but you can't plan for every possible disaster that can happen in the United States and world wide. Everyone barely wants to pay the tax dollars that they do, only imagine if we needed to plan for an alien attack like in "War of the Worlds" that might some day (one in a billion years) come and destroy the US. (ok.. far fetched, but you get the point) We would be spending all our money/effort on something that could possibly happen some day all to be able to say... well we planned for it. Get over it, stop pointing fingers, and in Trany's words "just fix the problem"
Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kitty: A Hurricane is not about politics,
It is when you have an administration that is altering the way the govt operates internally like NEVER has been seen in U.S. History.. The response is definitly tied to politics... I'm not just talking efficency here.. There are places that need to improve govt efficiency. But you can only "streamline" so much before it becomes blind gutting... I see it with my own eyes each day from the fed level on down.
When you see how FEMA has previously responded over the years.. VS. this.. something has changed.. and not for the better...
quote:.In June (2004), Pleasant Mann, a 16-year FEMA veteran who heads the agency's government employee union, wrote members of Congress to warn of the agency's decay. "Over the past three-and-one-half years, FEMA has gone from being a model agency to being one where funds are being misspent, employee morale has fallen, and our nation's emergency management capability is being eroded," he wrote. "Our professional staff are being systematically replaced by politically connected novices and contractors."
edit** I am in no way saying the the Gov of LA and Mayor of N.O. should not be accountable as well, as I think they made some really poor decisions about evacuations... There is a really telling picture of a fleet of school bus's left to be flooded out? Why were they not used? etc..
But that does not mean that the issues at the Fed lvl should be excused...
posted
This is what is sad about our country. People are never happy with the way the government does anything! (Democrate, Republican, etc.) First is that we are not saving our environment enough (no oil drilling in Alaska), then it was that we did not put enough money towards defending ourselves against terriorist (9-11), now it's that we didn't secure a levvy enough for a category 5 Hurricane (Katrina), next it will be that we didn't spend enough money finding our own natural resources for gasoline/oil as the prices are continuing to go up(going against the first issue), probably following that when California falls off the face of the planet due to a huge Earthquake, people will blame the government for not finding a way to secure their landmass to the rest of the US. No matter what any government does or president, every problem in American Society is going to be blammed on the Federal government. Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Everyone barely wants to pay the tax dollars that they do, only imagine if we needed to plan for an alien attack like in "War of the Worlds" that might some day (one in a billion years) come and destroy the US. (ok.. far fetched, but you get the point) We would be spending all our money/effort on something that could possibly happen some day all to be able to say... well we planned for it. Get over it, stop pointing fingers, and in Trany's words "just fix the problem"
Thats an unrealistic scenario, although possible. The difference between that and what happened with this hurricane is that the hurricane disaster was VERY realistic, and even predictable by anyone who has half a brain. People saw this coming based on the quality of the levees. So, as soon as it was predicted that a cat 5 hurricane was due to hit land near New Orleans about 2 days beforehand, that part of the country should have been in an absolute state of emergency as if a nuclear bomb was about to hit. They wernt. The fact is that the federal governemnt took absolutely no action to prepare for this situation in anticipation of the distruction, and that is an unbelievible fuck up. Not only did they not prepare, but it took them 2 fucking days to organize a response.
The property damage is going to hurt, and the economy will suffer reguardless of what the federal government does or who is in office. But, the loss of life could have been reduced considerably if we didnt have our heads up our asses.
Let the impeachments begin.
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Check your facts Ender. Everyone took action. Was it enough or in time - no. Fed/Local/State did take action before the storm hit.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:now it's that we didn't secure a levvy enough for a category 5 Hurricane (Katrina),
I dont think thats what alot of people are complaining about in this situation, Kitty. Rather, they are complaining about the lack of anticipation based on the knowledge that those levees would not withstand a storm they KNEW was going to hit that area and what the results would be. The federal govenment did absolutely nothing before the storm hit, and what the state did do was inadequate in that they didnt take this seriously enough and tell people to get the fuck out or your gonna die.
[ 09-07-2005, 09:16: Message edited by: Ender ]
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Check your facts Ender. The federal government didn't do "absolutley nothing" to prepare. Until a independent report is released it's not fair to make that statement.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Check your facts Ender. Everyone took action. Was it enough or in time - no. Fed/Local/State did take action before the storm hit.
Are you kidding me? The troops that are there now should have already been organized and refugee camps should have already been set up before the storm even hit. Why wernt they? Well, probibly because the goventment saw taking those preperations as a considerable cost of money and didnt want to over commit resources until they knew what kind of devastation they were dealing with. Once they realized the extent of the destruction (something they should have already known would happen) they said "oh fuck, what do we do now? we didnt plan for this."
The fact that there was no federal help present in the first 2 full days of the aftermath is bullshit and no excuse can be made for that.
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Check your facts Ender. There were federal "troops" (red cross etc) in the area positioned outside the area. The governeror was in charge of the situation until 2 days after the storm hit.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: Check your facts Ender. There were federal "troops" (red cross etc) in the area positioned outside the area. The governeror was in charge of the situation until 2 days after the storm hit.
Which is a joke, that the governer was in charge. And I know my facts: the only red cross people that were in place in the area during the first couple days were local and the numbers were in the hundreds, not thousands. Are you saying having those people in the area was sufficient preparation?
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
"The federal govenment did absolutely nothing before the storm hit" Your statement, not mine. Just correcting you.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Klaus: "The federal govenment did absolutely nothing before the storm hit" Your statement, not mine. Just correcting you.
They might as well have done nothing. Wouldnt have changed much.
-------------------- It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass. Posts: 1053 | From: Apple Valley, MN | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kitty: Get over it, stop pointing fingers, and in Trany's words "just fix the problem"
Excuse me.. but this is a complete oxymoron..
How can you possibly "fix the problem" if we cannot assess and generaly pinpoint fault & accountability that was responsible for the problem in the first place????
What?
More blind reorginization?
Blind tinkering?
More group-think, where we pull some plan out of our ass, without looking at "what has happened before", throw it out there and tout it as "better" just to be able to stand in front of a camera and pat each others back and suck each others dicks while saying.. "see we fixed it... it will be better now"..
This is the problem and results of those who dont look at the details of nuance... This is what results from running govt with a black-&-White attitude....
quote: "The key to intelligent tinkering is to keep all the parts." - Aldo Leopold
IMO.. this Admin (and some state admins like it) lets its personal agenda, and blind disdain for the govt and the people who comprise the govt, cloud their ability to objectively utilize the benefits of Hindsight to progressively move forward and "fix" what has been deemed to be broken... But what do I know.. I just work here..
Ender, I feel the need to respond to you first. The first step for the federal and state agencies in an event such as this is to get as many of their resources OUT of the area quickly. Don't forget what started this was a Hurricane with sustained winds of 160mph. Setting up camps of troops and moving rescue equipment into the area ahead of time would have made the situation 1000% worse and probably delayed their response considerably. You said it took them 2 days to respond. I am assuming you are basing this on what you have seen on CNN or something. This is also completely false. There were enormous preparations taking place several days before the hurricane hit land. Also don't forget that NO was not the only place hit by this. There were numerous coast gaurd choppers and other federal search and rescue resources there on Wed. 1 day after the levy broke. Many of them were pulled out of the area late Wed. and Thur. as the mass looting and shooting at them started by the mobs. I think what many of you are overlooking is that there was a significant portion of the population in NO that WANTED to stay and take advantage of the situation by looting. As early as Wed. afternoon "federal" resources attemting to make food and water drops were met with gunfire. Many of the police resources on the ground were either low of OUT of ammunition on Thurs. My point is that much of the "delayed" resonse that many speak of is directly due to the chaos that was tatically created by the remaining residents. Also, it was no secret for at least 2 days that Katrina was going to hit NO. The residents there should have had at least 3 days worth of food, water and essential medicine. No matter how poor you are 3 days of food and water is not too much to ask.
Next Joe. It came to no surprise to any of us on this board that you would take advantage of this event of great human suffering to bash the Bush "Administration". That's all I have to say about that.
It is my understanding of most disaster plans ( and I have read quite a few in the MPLS area) that the Federal role is that of long term support. The real Federal test will be what happens to the refugees over the next months.
Posts: 486 | From: Eagan, MN | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
Next Joe. It came to no surprise to any of us on this board that you would take advantage of this event of great human suffering to bash the Bush "Administration". That's all I have to say about that.
Ah.. so I'm not allowed to be critical... ?? and because I'm crititcal of the response..?? I somehow dont comprend the magnitude of the suffering or the realities of what these people are going thru.. Please.. spare me...
You assume my motives are political.. Ok whatever..
I would criticize any administration that functions remotely like this one.. I have no party affiliation... An I will criticize anything I view as underminding to the greater good.. I dont just reserve my criticizims to blowjobs in the whitehouse..
Like I said.. Some of what I see.. particularly at the fed level is the results of Group-think.
If your a liar and fool.. your a liar and a fool.. I dont care what party your in...
I'm also a certified SARTECH II have been a functional componet to ICS command structure for a variety of different SAR missions.. I do have better than a laymans understanding of whats required for a entity to "respond" to crisis.. we dont train for this magnitude of course.. but my critique is not one of a layman..
The fellow who Bush appointed to FEMA has mediocre (and thats being nice) at best credentials for being the Head of an angency with the responsibilites that FEMA has..
Overall...this has been a large contributer to the group-think mentality of this admin.. His appointments reak of favoritism over substance.. sorry.. the resumes dont lie... Many of this admins political appointees do NOT have the credentials for the positions they're given..
posted
Joe, you are right, you can't fixed the problem without knowing what went wrong, but we know what went wrong already. A Hurricane hit a city that was not prepared for a Category 5 Hurricane. Whether it was the levee breaking, people not being evacuated (whether by economic circumstances or plain stupidity), or a combination of a bunch of things, we know this is/was the problem. Pointing fingers at who's fault it is right now will not solve the problem, only prolong the efforts to get it under control. Do you seriously think that by pointing to one of three government officals who "screwed up" is needed to get the city unflooded and cleaned up? No. Blocking the levvy and pumping the water out so they can clean up the city is what's needed. Once again. Get over it, stop pointing fingers, and just fix the problem. Yes... in this case they are going to look back and say "what did we learn from this", but to my point before. We cannot plan for every possible disaster that might occur at some point in time. But hell, were American's, let's just blame the government since no one wants to take responsibility for not getting out, living in a flood plane, or pushing the government to enforce the levee which was already enforced once.
Luke, as to the government doing nothing... That's complete bullshit. 1. It was the President who initiated the evacuation orders and fed. disaster declaration, not the other way around-- Governor Bianco herself admitted this! She didn't ask for help until it was too late, after the levee had broke and the city flooded. 2. New Orleans was classified as a disaster zone before the hurricane even hit. Navy and coastgard ships were following right behind the Hurricane to provide relief. They were helping before the red cross could even get mobilized after the storm. Sorry, but I wouldn't put my ass in front of a storm either. What good are you at saving anyone else if you are dead. 3. The city (who's responsibility it is) didn't even attempt to offer transportation for their poor during their initial evac process, which, ignore the pun, was piss poor in my opinion. Those are the majority of the people who we are trying to save now. If they would have been evacuated before the storm, things would not look so bad. The Fed can't come in until the Gov asks, which was, once again, after the levee broke.
I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just unpointing a few of them. Overall, I think everyone needs to stop blaming and start fixing. Their is plenty of time for blame later.
If you guys want to know about what went wrong and who to blame I just saw that Fox has a story at 5:00 ET tonight dsicussing just that if you are interested.
Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dont get me wrong.. A lot of folks will abuse this opportunity.. A LOT... the vultures are everywhere... Klauso--> Geraldo on O&A just shameless.. But that doesnt take from what I view is the underlying problem. We'll see if I'm in any way vidicated..
Doesnt change that I see a lessening of our govt to cope with certain expectations, and I attribute it to changes being made at the functional level.. You can read about these changes yourself.. each day.. in any number of sources that will follow the doings of legislatures and agencies nationwide...
Edit*** I should clarify.. the "changes" I'm speaking of are largely the result of an arguably insideous way of making changes that doesnt require the exectutive branchs to have legislative approval.
posted
Yeah, Geraldo on Fox News was a piece of work..... crying and holding babies lol. Entertaining but way overboard.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
These "officials" need to start working together. Earlier today the Mayor of NO issued a manditory evacuation of the remaining residents. This included force to be used against anyone that refuses to leave. I just listened to the Goveror say she will not order force to be used and that the Mayor dosen't have the authority to order it. She wants more tests on the toxic water before asking people to leave.......... She says the remaining people have been through enough and shouldn't be asked to leave. If shes not careful she will be responsible for more deaths.
Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
I for one am trying to get past the fact that they had ample warning and am trying to focus on the now (i.e. fixing what's broken not worrying about why it broke or who didn't fix it before it broke or who took too long to start fixing it after it broke)
I mean, if they told me that a tornado was going to rip through Chaska in three days, I probably wouldn't be in Chaska in three days. And these people who didn't have transportation? My feet take me pretty far in 3 days. And these people who are poor and have no food and water and blah blah blah...well, I'm sorry but is sitting there in the path of a hurricane, doing nothing going to magically produce food, water and transportation?
Anyway, Tiff had a pretty decent point about this and she's usually more even keeled then I am so it was funny to hear: these people didn't help themselves. They sat and waited to be "rescued".
One of the biggest things that you notice is how quickly this group of people took advantage of the situation and turned it into a looting free for all, etc. and then sat there waiting for other people to help them and then got frustrated when no one did. There's a reason the aid didn't come pouring in like it did for the tsunami victims: these people had warning, and those people didn't. These people fight against the little aid, those people banded together and helped. Yes there were exceptions, but for the most part you saw people helping other people. New Orleans is a FRACTION of the Tsunami disaster and immediately we resort to looting, raping and murdering. Fucking animals.
Think about this: a tornado in downtown Eagan flattens 10 square blocks. You think the people of that community would sit there waiting for someone to come rescue them? You think the mayor would go on TV and yell at everyone else for not sending aid? You think the people would pull out their weapons and immediatly start firing at rescuers, raping, pillaging, murdering, etc.? No. As level-headed American suburban Minnesotans (See: caucasians) we would band together, form aid groups, rescue, clean, feed, clothe, save, etc. And if we needed to we'd bring in the National Guard. In fact the Governor would've activated them the second he/she saw the disaster.
I was in the Guard for 10 years. I was activated 10+ times in those 10 years. Straight line winds: activated. Tornadoes: activated. Floods in Grand Forks: activated. Missing children: activated. I'm surprised that people ignore the fact that the National Guard wasn't activated right away (were they?). And don't confused yourself by even thinking, "Well they're all in Iraq."
Anyway, my long ranting point is this: there's a reason these people didn't get the immediate help and it's their own fault. Not the government, not the mayor, certainly not the president. Did things go wrong, yes. Did people drag their feet, obviously. And why? Because they're probably so worried about getting critiqued for every single little move they make that they have to sit and have a meeting before they do anything and think of the impact of every single thing they do. I say stop worrying and make a decision, but that's just me. But the point is that these people needed to come together during this disaster, and they didn't. No community leadership, no political leadership, no "heroes" from downtown New Orleans that I've seen...but plenty outside of Louisiana.
Whew...so rip that apart.
I haven't been watching the news enough to see anything else, and frankly I'm tired of it.
The people that are in the way need to be moved, and New Orleans needs to be bulldozed. Start fresh.
"more deaths" not meaning that she is personally responsible for any. Just more in a sense that people have died and if the remaining ppl don't leave because she lets them stay it will be her fault. Posts: 5484 | From: St. Paul, Mn | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't always agree with what W does (as I'm sure you all know), but I think in this case, you can't blame the president/federal government for the failures of local government/agencies, the destruction due to a natural disaster, and individuals own actions. This is a time when finger pointing isn't going to solve the current problem, New Orleans is flooded and residents are evacuated is what we need to focus on. I'm now done with my preaching/opinion for the night. Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[shake]](graemlins/jpshakehead.gif)
like the mayor blaming bush for lack of governmental leadership in the face of this disaster then using the rudy guliani after 9/11 as a good example who happend to be the mayor of new york. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[throwup]](graemlins/throwup.gif)
![[brd]](graemlins/brdflick.gif)
A Hurricane is not about politics, it's a natural disaster not caused by any one person, group, etc. If everyone would just stop pointing fingers, maybe the rebuilding and clean up will happen much faster and the people who need the help can get it. I don't know if this is a news flash, but you can't plan for every possible disaster that can happen in the United States and world wide. Everyone barely wants to pay the tax dollars that they do, only imagine if we needed to plan for an alien attack like in "War of the Worlds" that might some day (one in a billion years) come and destroy the US. (ok.. far fetched, but you get the point) We would be spending all our money/effort on something that could possibly happen some day all to be able to say... well we planned for it. Get over it, stop pointing fingers, and in Trany's words "just fix the problem"
![[lame]](graemlins/lame.gif)
![[crazy]](graemlins/crazy.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[lol]](graemlins/lol.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[pointedstick]](graemlins/pointedstick.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
