This is topic Having some troubles with my pc in forum Computer Hardware Discussion at Noncompliance.


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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
Ok if you guys can help me figure this out I'll greatly appreciate it. Every time I"m in game (either cs or BF1942)it allows me to play for a short time than It boots me out and back to windows desktop. I've tried to update drivers for my vidcard, I've tried playing around in bios changing my apg config around, and I still can't get it to work. I also can't get my floppy to work so I can't flash bios to see if that helps. The light is on constantly, and driver's say that their installed properly, but it don't read or write.

Specs just incase they'll help are; Amd Athlon 2700+ xp, ASUS a7n8x-x mobo, corsair 2x256 matched ddr 2700,XFX gforce 4 ti4200, HDD1 is Seagate barracuda 7200rpm 40 gig, HDD2 is a WD 5400rpm out of my old pc. I"m running XP home sence I can't find my xp pro disk. Any suggestions will be helpful. Thanks guys Matress
 

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Posted by Hauserdaddy (Member # 50) on :
 
I think it is messing up because you didn't buy my truck!

Try flipping the cable around for the floppy or reseating it. If that doesn't work try a differenct cable/power connector.

Did the video card ever work correctly in your PC? Did you change anything from that point forward? I have had to revert to the reference drivers for my card because an update messed everything up and then update it from there.
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Load the most recent drivers for the NForce2 motherboard. They can be found at Nvidia.com. You have the non-deluxe version of the A7N8X board so make sure to get the correct BIOS for that board.

Go into memory settings in the BIOS and make sure it's set to AUTO speed. I think it defaults to some other mode.

The floppy is keyed on the board - you must use the cable that came with the board. Try a different floppy drive. Solid light means cable in backwards usually.

The only time I have gotten kicked to the desktop in games was due to HEAT issues. Make sure you have a good CPA cooler. I recommend the Volcano9.

Roll back the video driver to the one from June if you can find it. That driver works the best on my GF4 4200Ti.

Goodluck.
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
Not to hijack Matress's thread, but speaking of Heat Klaus. Just this last week, I started hitting 60 degrees C during CS play (Previously BF/DC was more the culprit of higher heat than CS). Will kick me to my ASUS monitor/alarm. Then it drops back to 57-59, and I can go back and play. Like I said, the first two weeks w/this new puter, never went above 53-C, Now it rides pretty solid at 57-58C when gaming, now just this week its hit 60C.
So this is a long time coming. Does the paste that went ontop of the CPU degrade over time??? What about the CPU fan???? getting clogged w/dust??? I upgraded the CPU cooler when I bought it, Its bigger & better looking than the ones they sell with AMD chips at WorstBuy. Should I pull it apart and start over. AND YES SCOTT, I KNOW I PUT IT ON CORRECTLY THE FIRST TIME..... otherwise it wouldn't of worked so well for so long. I added a case fan mid summer, so its got 4 case fans, plus the vid card/CPU fans. Its the gradual progression of increased heat since February that concerns me.



[ 11-20-2003, 14:03: Message edited by: Jomama ]
 

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Posted by Hauserdaddy (Member # 50) on :
 
I removed the cover off of the bay below my cdrom and above my harddrive. My computer is just hot enough to toast a bagel nice and brown. I would try a grilled cheese but I dont want cheese dripping all over the inside of my computer.
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Well two things you can do. Blow all the dust off the MB and the CPU cooler. It could be the paste I would suppose but I have never heard about having to re-apply after a certain time period. The 2nd thing is to set the ASUS monitor to a higher temp.... I would not be too concerned about the heat unless you are having other symptoms like freezing applications or graphical artifacts onscreen. The XP processors of your speed run a bit hot as you know.

Consider a Volcano type cooler.


It uses a large 70mm fan on it (the size of the case fans) and the speed is variable by using a small dial that comes with it. Mike and I really like the Volcano9. I turn my fan up to 5500RPM when I am in a game that will make my CPU hot and down to 1200RPM when I want to sleep in the same room... Very nice to be able to crank the sucker down and not have to hear it all the time.

The other thing is to make sure your case has lots of airflow. And make sure it's equal (one fan in back one in front) I have 6 fans in my case and the Volcano9 on my CPU - I never have problems anymore and can run my CPU fan at 1200RPM most of the time, even in games.

In my extra computer with a 1800XP in it and a cooper heatsink 5500RPM CPU fan I only have one case fan. It gets flaky in games because I don't have enough case fans (only 1). But I think it's the video card not the CPU.
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
I may try the volcano upgrade.... Worstbuy did have a front mounted fan I was gonna add, went in the wide bays in front with 3 inward blowing fans (checked yesterday and they were out).

When you say up my alarm threshold on the ASUS heat monitor, I thought that 59 or 60 degree's Celcius was basically the threshold that you wanted to stay below??? If not, whats the "critical" temp for the 1.6 Atholon XP?


 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Considering the price of the 1600XP is about $20 now I would push the temp as high as 65-70 as long as you don't have any of the issues I mentioned. One word about those triple fan deals - I got one about a year ago for my extra computer - two of the little fans failed in the first few months. Your money might be better spent on more large fans or a new CPU cooler.

One good thing is when you eventully upgrade to a 2500 or better - those CPUs run much cooler because of larger surface area on top of the chip. My 2500 runs at 39C - so your case will still be plenty decent (I was going to say get a case with more cooling).
 

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Posted by Mikey (Member # 42) on :
 
Joe, for your situation and the price I would highly reccomend the volcano cpu fan. I was having problems very simalar to yours this spring. I decided that even though its 35 bucks it's worth the money for the peace of mind for a cool cpu. I'm sure you already did it but make sure you clean the dust out it does seem to matter on mine. DO NOT buy one of those 3 fan deals on the 5 inch bay it sucks. My fans all failed right away.
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Klaus:
Considering the price of the 1600XP is about $20 now I would push the temp as high as 65-70 as long as you don't have any of the issues I mentioned. One word about those triple fan deals - I got one about a year ago for my extra computer - two of the little fans failed in the first few months. Your money might be better spent on more large fans or a new CPU cooler.

One good thing is when you eventully upgrade to a 2500 or better - those CPUs run much cooler because of larger surface area on top of the chip. My 2500 runs at 39C - so your case will still be plenty decent (I was going to say get a case with more cooling).

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Looks like I'll be buying the volcano for step one, and clean out the dust at the same time. Thanks for the heads up on the frontfan, sounds like two failures

Regarding upgrading the chip eventually... Is the "plug" format of the 2500 the same as the 1.6 or will I need a new MB with that chip?? (since you mention its got more surface area, just wondering if that affects the plug-in configuration)

None of the issues that you mentioned. It actually seems to run really good. Just the infintesimly slow high-heat level increase since built. I'll bump it up to 61C and see if it continues to rise.
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
Correction: I'm running a Athalon XP2000+ (1.6 is the speed, couldnt keep all the #'s straight).
Checked the reciet. Don't know how much bigger the volcano's gonna be, but I did do the upgrade to a big "AMD Approved" Heavy duty heatsink & fan, w/copper shim. It runs at about 4800rpm at rest,4950rpm at these peak temps. Guess that extra rpm may make a difference?

 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
That fan should be good enough (loud though right?). Unless you see video issues or locking up in windows I say just clean it out and run it. Reapply the goo if you think that might help. Do you have one fan blowing in - in the front of the case and one blowing out at the back?

You will have to check your board on the Asus site to see if a BIOS upgrade will let it run faster chips. The 2500s run with the 333 memory (2700model).
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
Rgr, was just looking at the asus site. Says it'll handle up to 2.4ghz processor. I'm running 256mb 3200DDR (400mhz) already, and was planning to double that at some point. I'll open it up and clean it this weekend and check out the size of the current CPU fan cause I don't remember all that well. Re fans, I don't have a place to put one up in front of the case other than the apparent crappy one's you guys tried. I've got two big ones sucking in the back. One on top venting, and one on the removable panel side venting out (all the same sized 70mm fans) , along with the powersupplies own fan... vents out I think. I don't find mine particularly loud.
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Well cool looks like you are set up then for future expantion. The 2500 with the bigger cache is down to $85 already and dropping.

Also, consider updating your BIOS to the latest version - the ASUS probe is legendary for reading fucked up temps off the CPU on different boards. I know on the A7N8X I have there have been 3 updates to the BIOS to address the problem.
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
How do I update Bios??

I've been avoiding updating all the time, just cause everything actually WORKS now.... Have left my Vid Drivers alone and such. If it aint broke....
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
You download the BIOS file from the ASUS website along with a small BIOS update file. You put them both on a floppy that is bootable (when you format it select make bootable checkbox). Reboot computer with floppy in drive. When you get to a DOS A:\ type the name of the small utiliy ex (asusupdate.exe). The little program runs and asks you for the name of the new BIOS. You type it in exactly and hit return. It will show a progress bar as it rewrites the BIOS. DONE. There are detailed instructions on the web site so print those. It's really not that hard.

Oh, one little thing....while it's updating DO NOT unplug the computer or hit the power button or your computer will never boot again..... Goodluck
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
One problem, no floppy.
Havent had the need for one.

I checked out the site and looked at the bios updates. Theres a whole shit load of them, some from a year before I bought the damn thing. There's a recent one for "cpu heat calibration display..." or something like that. So I need to put this and something else on a disk. Uhhhggggg.. I hate this shit man..
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Please post the model of you motherboard and I will email you the correct file and instructions. Also order yourself a damn $5 floppy drive I tried to go without for 3 years finally broke down and bought 3 a few months ago for all the computers here. Or you could borrow the one out of your roommates computer.....
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
Asus A7V8X KT400.

I looked at the instruction and see what your talking about. I see what files you use, but a couple things are still a bit hazy in the instruc. , but I'll call you when I pick up a floppy and try doing the procedure. I'll look this weekend and see if I can get that and a volcano in town at a decent $$$ before ordering one online.
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
well I believe I have all my problems fixed at this point. I flashed bios from the 1006 version to the 1007 and it helped out. Also Jo I know with this new asus shit you can get the asusupdate program and it will look for what you need and help you flash your bios from windows insted of going through all the bs. if you actrally pay attention and don't just think you know it all (like me) its really simple. I finally tried to download DC but after an hour of waiting I guess the one I downloaded was corrupt (figures) anyways Im gonna go try again . PS I thought I tried all the combos of ways to flip the floppy cable but I guess I was wrong. I got that fixed too thanks for the help guys
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
That's great to hear Matress!

Joe - Matress is correct there is a little program asusupdate that will run in windows and then reboot you into DOS without a floppy. I forgot about it and it only works with newer boards (which you have). You should consider that before getting a floppy.
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
So I got this Volcano 11.. (I was running a Volcano6)

But didn't like wasting a 5-inch slot for one dial (I actually wanted the Volcano 12 which has a 3inch insert speed-dial, but didnt find them in town). So I set it up with this


I'm now running between 43-50 degC by the ASUS Probe reading, and the new control panel shown above reads between 33-40, but I couldnt get the heat sensor for that on the chip, just on the side of the base of the Volcano-11 Heatsink. Another heat sensor on the HD. The panel controls the CPU fan, the fan in the control-panel, and the two exhaust case fans.

I'll try and find the non-disk bios update for the MB.


[ 11-22-2003, 22:08: Message edited by: Jomama ]
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
I figured out the Asus autoupdate and autoBiosflash. It updated my AsusProbe and now my cpu reads 31C idel, 36/38 gaming. So thats fucked up.
Guess it was more the bios update than the fans???
Heatsink temp reads a few degrees above cpu temp now, which makes a bit more sense if I remember my physics correctly (Chad?) ...Still nice having the bling , and better cpu cooler.


[ 11-23-2003, 02:10: Message edited by: Jomama ]
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Asus probe if I remember the problems correctly didn't actually use the temp probe that AMD puts in each CPU but one that is near the CPU slot. Then adds a certain number to that sensors reading to give you your CPU's temp. So if that sensor reads 30C ASUS probe automatically adds like 15 degrees to it and you see 45C. Not the most accurate way to do it since AMD started to put a sensor in the CPU that ASUS could actually use instead.

There are a couple aftermarket free download programs that take the place of ASUS probe. And when you install the program you also install a small config file specific to your MB (so it reads the sensors correctly). I found much different readings (higher) on my board when I installed one.
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Also if you have no use for it could I have that single panel with the dial on it you aren't using? My work computer has a Volcano 9 and I can't control the speed because I don't have a dial.
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
Sure I'll bring the panel at xmas.

So I don't understand your other post. Your saying that despite the updates I just did, the ASUS probe prog isn't getting a really accurate reading??

I'm having prob with the forum today as well, keeps loading blank pages?


 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Yes, that is what I am saying. If you want a real accurate reading I would get a 3rd party program. How can your temperature change that much with just a BIOS update? It's not making the board/CPU run any cooler - it's just changing the way the temp is calculated. All the companies like to claim they have the best board/coolest running so they fuck around with how the temps are calculated. Asus especially. I will send you a program tomorrow from work to try.

Yes, I am having the same problem with the forums.
 

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Posted by Mikey (Member # 42) on :
 
Bet ya your web server is full again!!
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
my pc is acting the same way it was before I flashed bios. I haven't the slightest clue what it is and I'm about to use it for a target. any other suggestions guys?
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
What is it doing? Still crashing to the desktop in 1942?
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
What is it doing? Still crashing to the desktop in 1942?
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
Here's what I got. First off in BF my screen goes in and out of the textures and a white screen and I don't see walls just my gun and some objects, along with this it still crashes out of BF and back to my desktop where it always resets my resolution to 800x600. Floppy is working fine so's all my other drives. I've been researching into all of this more and more and I noticed that if I go into my device manager, go under the (IRQ) my vidcard come's up as "(PCI)19 Nvidia Geforce4 ti 4200 with 8x agp", I was reading somewhere (believe it to be the Nvidia site) that the "Miniport apg drivers" could be an issue with it being asigned with my vidcard.

Now I don't know for sure if this a Vidcard issue or not. I've reinstalled driver's, flashed bios, tried all kinds of things except this "Miniport agp" thing and that's only because I haven't been able to 1. find these drivers, and 2. having really much about it.

With CS every time I try to open steam and than open CS it tells me that this game is currently unavail, and doesn't let me do shit. I never had that problem before I flashed bios. I'm looking at ever aspect trying to get this thing figured out I don't know if I need to reformat again but if I do I don't want to loose all the updates and crap I've already done. once again thanks for the help guys, I think I'm gonna just get this thing going 1 day and never wanna build another pc again.
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
ok I think I got cs back working, I reinstalled steam and it seems to be good so far. maybe I need to reinstall bf and the patch and see if it helps anyways. that's tomorrows task to try and fix
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
FYI: when Steam was giving you the "game is currently unavail..." it (may) actually mean that steam doesn't have any open connections to update you, so you don't have the current version of the game, and its "unavailable". This happened to me on turkey day (WHY O FUCKING WHY did they release a update on a holiday weekend). Took me all day before I finally connected to steam an succesfully downloaded the update. Kept giving me the same message Matress got when it would bog down trying to connect. Wouldn't retry either, had to restart the puter to make steam try and update again

Don't know whats up with BF, as I've a very similar puter to yours and didn't have any probs on startup (I reformated back in June), but I've got a bit older drivers I guess.
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Sounds like you are having the issues Chad mentioned with regards to the new Nvidia drivers. You might consider going back to the older Nvidia drivers that work with 1942.
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
well isn't this just wierd as hell... Earlier tonight when I was playing cs on TSL's server along with Klaus all of a sudden my pc went wacko on me and well after some dilly dalling I realised that my 1 hard drive wasn't responding to jack shit. So right now I"m in the process of reformatting my old harddrive with xp pro and reinstalling everything hopefully we'll see good results that and Seagate better give me a new harddrive sence its brand fuckin new.
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Try the 4.3.4.5 Nvidia driver for your video card. Also make sure to install the Nvidia unified chipset driver that is on Nvidias site for your motherboard instead of the drivers that came with your motherboard. They are newer.
 

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Posted by Cremator (Member # 8) on :
 
I found if you have across-the-board video problems, it may be your MB AGP drivers. When I updated my SOYO BIOS, my video was shitty until I found updated AGP drivers, then it worked like a champ...

Man vs. Machine, the battle continues
 

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Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
 
Nvidia 53.03 drivers cleared up all my graphics problems.

www.guru3d.com
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
ok this is the message I get with both the 1.5 patch and DC installs "the content of this file cannot be unpacked, The executable you are attempting to run has been corrupted. Please obtain another copy of the file, verify its integrity and try again"

Now this is everytime I try to get these down loads. Anyone know where I can get good copy's?
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Were you able to get those updates installed yesterday Matress? Have you tried 1942 yet?
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
I did get the 1.5 updated, but not DC yet. I am still having the same problem with it crashing to desktop. I wonder if it could possibly be something todo with only having DirectX 8, and/or with my video settings ingame. I know with CS I have everything working fine again after a fresh reinstall.

So I know it has to be something todo with BF now sence that's the only application that I find that is screwing up anymore.
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Well try these steps:

1) Install an older driver for your video card or use the one Chad posted that is known to work with 1942 1.5.

2) Rule out heat - run the game with your case open.

3) Dumb down your display settings in game - and also dumb down your sound settings. When the game first came out there was a glitch if you had high quality sound selected.

4) Try this refresh rate fix....

1.02 - The game crashes to the desktop!

Go to: My computer, then C drive, then Program Files, EA GAMES,
Battlefield 1942, Mods, bf1942, then the Settings folder. In that
folder you will see a file called VideoDefault.con. You will want to
double click this file to open it. If it asks you what Program to use
(in Windows XP you will first want to choose "Display a list of
programs for me to choose from), choose Notepad or Wordpad. In there
you will see a line with this command:

renderer.allowAllRefreshRates 0

Change the 0 to a 1 and then Save the file. This will allow refresh
rates above 60 Hz in the game.

This will enable a different refresh rate for every resolution in the
in-game menu.

[ 12-02-2003, 13:39: Message edited by: Klaus ]
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
well I installed the driver's that chad posted and so far its worked fine for me, I played for about a half hr and no crashes so far. if that doesn't work I'm gonna try the other things that you just posted Klaus but so far so good lets hope this fixes this bullshit
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
Well I thought I had everything running nice and smooth but I guess not. I'm still experencing the same things as before, only its taking longer I get about a good half hr hr in and than it will boot me. trying to open up the case now and see what I get, I highly doubt that heats an issue I have a total of 10 fans in my new pc(4 intake, 3 exhaust, vidcard, cpu, and ps), I'd think it would keep it cool but maybe cpu is getting too hot
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
with the idea of heat on my mind lemme ask somethin else #1 I used the fan and heatsink that came with my cpu, would upgrading this fix all of my problems, and #2 I always hear you guys about using thermo-paste all I used was the tape/what ever you wanna call it and followed the instructions that came with the cpu on how to install. It never said anything about the thermo paste, should I try this as well? and if so is there a differnce in the stuff your talking about and the stuff that get's used in like trailer plugs, and what not on cars?
 

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Posted by Klaus (Member # 66) on :
 
Matress read down in this thread and download the motherboard monitor programs and the setup file for the A7N8X. Report your temps on here.

The thermal paste we are talking about is special stuff and I prefer the brand "arctic silver" (best buy). Put on just a tiny tiny bit enough to cover just the cpu. The tape "should be" good enough but give me your temp readings.
 

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Posted by Jomama (Member # 56) on :
 
What did your CPU cooler look like. All copper heat sink, or aluminum with a copper center? What size fan?
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
according to asus probe I was running no hotter than 51C on the cpu , no hotter than 24C on the mob. GavinMcManus said that he thought it could be cause I'm running too small of a power supply, and with all my fans sucking power it could cause it.I haven't noticed a differnce though when I unplugged my rear and side fans. I went into somethin last night and was lookin at all the errors that my pc has had sence I started it and I found that most were due to a modual, and something else *****.dll.
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
Well believe it or not I'm 99.9% sure I finally figured this all out. The Jumper that come's on the mobo for fsb speed comes from ASUS wacked. I finally read somewhere that people have been experencing problems with unstable usage of they're pc's regarding this. Well I finally went ahead and pulled the damn thing and have played cs and bf with out innsident so far. I guess it has something todo with it can't run your fsb at the speed you select in bios and once its pulled it will run at the speed you choose.

Anyways this might be some good news finally and hopefully that is the end of these problems. I'll be on cs and/or bf tomorrow after work, so if anyone wants to play some good old bf lemme know.
 

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Posted by Matress (Member # 71) on :
 
ok guys I completely tore down my pc tonight to see what is going on with it. when I took the heatsink and fan off of my cpu i noticed that the pad that is sposed to be on there was worn away, and it looked like the cpu chip and heatsink were touching. I know we looked into the heat problem before and didn't do much but I'm wonding if this is why I've had to run my pc at 133 insted of 166 for it to run stable. I'm thinkin about picking up a new heatsink and fan on my way home tomorrow from my orientation at dunwoody. Is this just gonna be a waste of my time? or is this my problem i've been having sence day one. anyways any input would be appreciated as always thanks guys
 

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Posted by Hauserdaddy (Member # 50) on :
 
thermal paste?
 

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Posted by Cremator (Member # 8) on :
 
I agree with Hauser: I've seen posts on the Net about those thermal pads and they're always bad - go with a little drop of thermal paste (the silver kind is best). I've had good luck with fairly generic heatsink/fan combos, but if you aren't confident in yours, it's money well spent as heat will kill a CPU. Hand-in-hand with the CPU fan, make sure you have good airflow through for your case - if it's hot in the case the CPU will still suffer no matter how good it's fan...
 

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Posted by Chadwick (Member # 45) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cremator:
I agree with Hauser: I've seen posts on the Net about those thermal pads and they're always bad - go with a little drop of thermal paste (the silver kind is best). I've had good luck with fairly generic heatsink/fan combos, but if you aren't confident in yours, it's money well spent as heat will kill a CPU. Hand-in-hand with the CPU fan, make sure you have good airflow through for your case - if it's hot in the case the CPU will still suffer no matter how good it's fan...

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