Making a Murderer

[Klaus]

Fascinating documentary about Steve Avery. Must watch but pretty one sided.
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I think Avery did it but I don't think the evidence was not planted by the police. I just kept thinking if all the police corruption stuff wasn't a factor in the case would the evidence presented be enough to convict someone and my conclusion was yes. After I finished watching I searched on the internet for additional info and of course the documentary left out a bunch of key facts to make Avery look more innocent.

I do kinda like the alternate theory that the ex-boyfriend killed her and dumped the Rav4 in the woods somewhere. The licence plate was called in 4 days before it was found when the deputy found it (where it was dumped in the wood). They then came up with the plan to frame Avery. Deleted voicemails etc etc back up the plan. Far fetched but interesting since the ex-boyfriend was pretty creepy.

[Ender]

The first couple of episodes that focused on the first case were very interesting. As for the rest of it though, here is an article that talks about the key evidence that was left out of the show: http://www.avclub.com/article/read-damning-evidence-against-steven-avery-making--230224

It's some pretty damning stuff.

[Klaus]

Saw this on TMZ this morning.



Steven Avery claims his own two brothers may have killed Teresa Halbach -- especially one who he says had a history of harassing women at the exact location where Teresa was last seen.
Avery filed legal docs -- obtained by TMZ -- in which he claims brothers Earl and Charles may have done the deed for which he's serving a life sentence. He says both have a history of sexually assaulting women. Earl once pled no contest to sexually assaulting his 2 daughters.
According to the docs, which Steven filed in 2009 after his conviction, brother Charles' criminal conduct and actions are even more problematic. He was charged with sexually assaulting his wife by holding her down and trying to strangle her with a phone cord before having intercourse with her.
The docs say Charles also had a history of aggression toward women who visited the family's junkyard. One woman, who was there to retrieve her car that had been towed, complained to cops she was afraid of Charles because he was aggressively pursuing her ... sending flowers and money to her home, calling her incessantly and showing up at her doorstep.
According to docs there was another incident in which a woman who bought a car part from the junkyard was harassed by Charles, who asked her on dates and showed up at her house.
Another woman claimed Charles had repeatedly driven by her house and would tell her on the phone he had seen her in her bathing suit as he drove by.
And this is interesting ... according to the docs, all of these women were allegedly harassed by Charles within a month of the time Teresa Halbach went missing.
Steven also says his 2 brothers had a motive to frame him because they were fighting over the family business and were jealous he was on the verge of a multi-million dollar settlement for being wrongfully convicted of sexual assault.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3wTt27JAH

[Jomama]

So everyone is talking about this, is it still worth watching given I've heard and read all the press the last few days? Including the last two bits of info that make the documentary makers sound a little less objective by not presenting all the evidence used in the case.

[Klaus]

Yeah I think so. Would be interesting to hear your take on it knowing that info going in. It's really well done even with some "key evidence" left out. Just the way the prosecution treats the nephew and somehow still gets his statements presented as evidence is a wtf moment. Plus a few of the smarmy deputies and attorneys end up really looking like tools in the end.

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[Jomama]

Ok cool..

You should check out the new Serial podcast too, its only 3 episodes in and much different case than the Baltimore murder in Serial Season 1. They are looking at the case of this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowe_Bergdahl who did some interviews with the guy who wrote The Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Thirty (I believe he did the interviews with Bergdahl prior to joining up with the Serial people)...

[Klaus]

I will check it out. I almost started season 1 the other day but didn't know season 2 had just started.

[Jomama]

The names in season 1 made me dizzy, with two different ethnic names being said constantly that sound somewhat similar...

[Klaus]

432

"My favorite character in Making A Murderer is this reporter whom I have lovingly dubbed "Bitch Ain't Having It"

[Jomama]

We're 4 episodes in.. But.. I've a feeling my thoughts in the end will be the same thoughts I have on Serial season 1. I'm not convinced they are innocent, but I'm completely disgusted that they have been prosecuted and convicted on such garbage evidence from what (imo) was a terrible police investigation...

[Klaus]

Yeah I am sure that will be your thoughts after you finish. Just wait until the nephews case.

[Jomama]

I just cant believe that judge fox viewed that leading interrogation of a 16yr old, clearly mentally stunted child, w/out parents or lawyer, and said that there was nothing improper about it... Just unbelievable.. How frustrating to be the defense & civil rights attorneys involved in this, and be surrounded and have deal with such widespread incompetence/negligence...

[Jomama]

I know this may not be Mikes focus as a PO (homicide investigations), but I would love to hear his take on the LEOs behavior.

[Ender]

I finished this last night. I was actually only up to episode 4 as of my last post.

I have done a complete 180 and think he is actually innocent. Here is why:

The prosecution's case relies on the following physical evidence:

- Bone fragments in Steve Avery's burn pit: the fact that there were also fragments found in his cousin's burn barrel and also in a quarry located several miles away means they were moved, which the defense does a very good job of arguing and getting the forensic analyst to agree with. Why would Steve Avery burn a body in his burn pit, then scatter bone fragments in 2 different places? It is much more likely that someone burned the body at a different location (probably the quarry, because that is a good place to do it to avoid line of sight), shoveled the ashes into a container, and dumped them in both Steve's burn pit and the barrel.

- Car keys in Steve's bedroom: as Scott said already, these were so obviously planted its not even funny. That trailer had already been gone through thoroughly by the time the keys were "found", and several people were interviewed that had already searched that bedroom, including that spot, and found no keys.

- Bullet in garage: this one is tougher than the keys to have planted, but I still think it was done. The lack of any of Teresa's DNA elsewhere in the garage (or anywhere else for that matter other than her bones) makes it hard to believe she was shot on his property at all, unless it was done while she was standing in the damn fire (which is possible... they could have thrown her in first but she would need to be standing up for the bullet to travel into the garage from there). This bullet was also found 4 months after the investigation, and they had spent a TON of time combing through that place during the investigation. Cops had her DNA from the bone fragments and could have found a bullet fragment anywhere on the property, used a bone fragment to apply her DNA, then plant it in the garage. It is actually ridiculous that the DNA testing that showed contamination from the analyst was reported as a valid result, against lab SOPs, instead of being invalidated. It is more ridiculous that this invalid result was allowed to be used as evidence in court. The statement she wrote down where the cop said to "use it to put Teresa in the garage or house" makes this even more suspicious.

Steve's blood in car: the only way the prosecution was able to prove this wasn't planted was by doing the EDTA test, which was made up in short order. You heard the defendant's analyst say the method used had not identified a method detection level. That is HUGE. If the judge or any juror knew anything about analytical chemistry (which they probably don't) that should be enough right there to dismiss the results as inconclusive. This is because if the method detection level is very high relative to how much preservative they use in the vial, it simply will not detect it. The sensitivity of a test is critically important to understand a non-detect result. If we collected a water sample and ran a method that detects only down to 10ppb for a contaminant, but there ends up being 5 ppb of that contaminant in the water, it will provide a result of ND. What if that contaminant ends up having a health risk limit of 1ppb established (which is not uncommon these days)? That means your test just said the water is totally fine when it in fact is not. The vial of blood in the evidence case was obviously tampered with. Why else would someone tamper with it and extract some if not to use it for something?

The fact that Teresa's blood was also in the car makes the whole prosecutions scenario of how she was killed even more unlikely. Why would Steve rape her, then shoot her, then place her in her car, then take her out, then burn her body? That makes no sense.

Here is what I think happened. Someone stopped her car after she left Steve's, had her get out of the car, shot her, placed her back in her car, drove it (probably using gloves) to the quarry, burned the body, and dumped the bone fragments overnight. It isn't clear who did this, but the defense wasn't able to investigate that because they were not allowed to consider alternative suspects (another totally ridiculous ruling). The car was then driven to and left at the Avery yard by the killer. The cops planted the keys, blood in car, and bullet later. Being that they planted the keys, at least one of them was involved in the killing somehow or at least knew who the killer was.

[Klaus]

I agree with most of what you posted. However, the additional information that keeps coming up now is hard to ignore:

Non blood DNA from Rav4 hood latch area.
Brandon turned in his bleach spattered jeans he claims he wore when cleaning up garage with Avery.
Leg irons were purchased two weeks before murder. They were presented at trial (not shown in show).
Avery calls Teresa three times day or murder - first two he blocks with *67
Avery is obsessed with Teresa and has answered his door with only a towel on at a previous appointment.
Full transcript of Brandon's confession shows he was led to say a lot of stuff but there is an entire freestyle part where he explains everything with no prompting.


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[Klaus]

http://jenniferjslate.com/2016/01/04/what-did-netflixs-making-a-murderer-leave-out/

[Ender]

Yeah the hood latch DNA is hard to believe would either be planted or be there for any other reason than being connected to the murder. It is possible he opened it for her while she was there one time to help her fix something, but unlikely.

Was her DNA on the restraints? I would think it would be given that if you are being raped you are probably struggling a lot and get either sweat or blood on them.

[Klaus]

From the article I linked above:



Steven Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons three weeks before Teresa went missing. The state claims Brendan Dassey admitted these items were used to restrain Teresa in Steven’s trailer.

Steven openly admitted in a Milwaukee Magazine article (http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/) he did purchase these items, but he bought them to use with Jodi. And, unfortunately for the state, none of Teresa’s DNA was found on the leg irons or handcuffs, which seems very hard to believe if she really was shackled to Steven’s bed.

[Ender]

I see that now, thanks. I suppose they could have been easily cleaned though and if he really cleaned the garage to the point of it being spotless (which I still find hard to believe) he would have cleaned everything else.

[Jomama]

Just wait until the nephews case.

Wow... just wow.. especially all the denied appeals.. the completely criminal collusion by his first appointed attorney and his investigator working on behalf of the prosecution... Just wow.. They may be guilty, but by no means did any of the prosecution prove anything to me beyond a reasonable doubt.. The Jury should be ashamed of themselves..

This is precisely why I dont support the death penalty in all but the most absolutely clear cut federal capital/terrorism type cases...

[Jomama]

http://gawker.com/steven-averys-ex-fiancee-says-hes-a-guilty-abusive-mo-1753040348